Ladies, can I talk to you as a brother real quick? I more than anyone am for girls dressing modestly, but I think we are in danger in the future if we don’t realize a few things. I came across a recent article that argued modesty standards are sometimes just as sinful as girls who dress promiscuously. I wholeheartedly agree, but first let me explain. Because promiscuity is so prevalent today, we in the church have reacted by elevating modesty to unhealthy proportions. We jump too quickly into behavior modification and don’t realize that most of our modesty campaigns are actually borderline legalism.
One rule in particular that “Christian” schools, universities, and clubs like to enforce is the “skirt test.” It usually involves the woman getting on her knees to see if the skirt touches the ground, which if it does it’s deemed acceptable. My question though is what are we doing in that moment? Is the gospel being exalted or are we heaping shame and condemnation on them? The fact that she is on her knees for the test couldn’t be more symbolic of submission, power, shame, and guilt. The trouble, however, is that while modesty standards are set up to not make women’s bodies an object, it is in fact doing that very thing.
Highlighting the girl’s dress in front of everyone, and telling her she should dress a certain way because she doesn’t want “to make the men stumble” is simply making her an object. In the Body we need to realize using men’s sin and lust issues as the reason why a woman should dress a certain way is actually making her just as much an object than if she were to dress promiscuously.
Now, am I saying a woman should dress promiscuously? Hear me emphatically say NO. There is nothing more attractive to me than when my girlfriend dresses in a way that brings attention to her face, not her body. She is beautiful inside and out, and her dressing in a way that makes her smile and personality central shows me she knows who she is, and Who’s she is–which is extremely attractive. But, I am arguing that we must be on guard against our hearts natural inclination towards legalism.
Every lady should ask herself when getting dressed, “am I getting dressed thinking about God’s gaze upon me or someone else’s?” Because the truth is whether you dress to be looked at modestly, or you dress to be looked at promiscuously, you are still dressing to be looked at by someone other than your Creator, which is idolatry. There is nothing wrong getting dressed or picking clothes because you think others will think they’re cute, what I am saying though is, is that affirmation ultimate in your life?
Let me say this loud and clear ladies: you are not an object! Dressing so “church people” will accept you or dressing so guys will gawk at you is the same sin—becoming a slave to the praise of man. Below are a few reasons or thoughts on how and why we got there.
Everything Caters to the Men
Imagine if men were subject to women’s “stumbling block” argument as much as women are to men? Imagine if a woman’s heart was cared for, cherished, and defended with the same tenacity that Christians defend men’s purity? You would certainly hear a lot less sermons about women having to dress a certain way, and more sermons about guys needing to repent of flirty text messages late at night with a girl he has no intention of pursuing. Maybe rather than girl’s having to pass the “skirt test” in the hallway, the teenage boys would have to pass the “text message test” by having their Christian teacher read through them everyday. Imagine that?
It is sad how much of the Christian theology centers on the man being helped and defended. Women are constantly told to dress in a way that makes the men not “stumble.” Now it is extremely encouraging from a guy’s point of view when you can tell a woman is dressing in a way to honor and help a brother in Christ. But, a lot of times this is just a cop out for guys to not deal with their unrepentant lust, sexual sin, and heart issues. It is following in the footsteps of their first father Adam who didn’t take responsibility but instead blamed his wife (Genesis 3).
The truth is a guy can lust or think sinful thoughts about a woman if she were fully covered head-to-toe. No matter what a girl wears the guy has a choice whether he will let Jesus and the power of grace rule in his heart, or if he will let his flesh rule over him. So women, dress modestly, but don’t become a slave to a man’s eyes, become a slave to Jesus.
We love Rules and Regulations, not the Spirit
No matter what the issue is, we as humans prefer rules, regulations, laws, and checklists to Jesus himself. Rather than asking the Spirit what the real issue is inside a woman’s heart, we simply want them to externally modify their behavior. We love to live by the letter of the law, and not the Spirit of the law. We do this because the rules are easier and quicker. But please take note of this one simple truth; a woman must have her heart changed, before her clothes ever will.
Trusting the Spirit takes constant communion, relationship, praying, etc. We can make rules and adhere to them whether the Spirit is absent or not, but to live by the Spirit means you must have a real, intimate, and lively relationship with Him in order to be in communication with Him. This does take time and effort, but the change that occurs here is real, deep, and lasting. If we are only after behavior modification and not the heart, we’ve lost the point completely and are in the same sin as the promiscuous dressing girl, just with a different bent (a more dangerous one I might add because you are not going to get drug before church discipline for dressing too modestly). This is why I love Jesus; He is the perfect solution and antithesis to both religion and rebellion.
Solution
Trust the gospel, and no longer submit to a yoke of slavery (Galatians 5:1). Don’t feel that your standing before God is in exact parallel with how you dress. You are clothed in perfection because you are in Jesus, not because you dress modestly. It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Above that though bring glory to God through your clothes. Dress in such a way that points to your Savior and Creator, not yourself. Because as mentioned above, even sometimes modesty campaigns can be all about you, when God calls us to dress in a way that’s all about Him.
On a practical level, ask your husband, boyfriend, or a guy who is a “brother figure” about this subject. I think this type of guy usually knows you enough to have an honest conversation about what is helpful, what isn’t, and what brings the most glory to Jesus. Lastly, attack the heart of the issue and ask the Spirit to reveal where something may need to change. Remember that clothes (and the attitude that puts on those clothes) are simply an outflow of what’s in the heart. So, ladies, let our Savior’s grace, rather than your righteousness, be exalted through your dress.
I never thought that modesty could become an idol, but you really pointed some stuff out that made me see this subject in a new light. We really do need to exalt the Lord through our dress (and with everything else in our lives) without becoming legalistic about it.
This is amazing. I went to a Christian University where the skirt test (as well as other tests) were taught. There were even signs in the hallway that said “Are you fine? or FINED?” referring to the fact that we would have gotten fined $25 dollars if we broke the dress code and someone reported us. Modesty was preached, but it was also ENFORCED. This, to me, created more of an attitude of rebellion among students who truly needed a heart change, not a dress change.
We also had to go to chapel two times a week, in which case we only had three allowed absences. Sometimes we even had to get “scanned in” with our student IDs if we were tardy. Most times, I thought, “How should I get credit for worshiping God?” It just didn’t seem right.
Rules are set in place for a reason, but I feel that sometimes obeying the rules, as you have so eloquently stated here – takes the focus off of pleasing God and onto pleasing man. Great post, and thank you for shedding light on this subject.
I think this guy is missing a point or two. He starts off with an example I have not seen with the girl being judged in front of everybody to see if her skirt hits the ground = acceptable.
A private school or college can enforce whatever rules or dress code they want. If you send your daughter to that school or college, you are knowingly subjecting her to that and any other man made standard they have. While you may not like it, that is not indicative of legalism in the church or condemnation.
Are school uniforms LEGALISTIC? I don’t think so. Are dress codes legalistic in and of themselves? Not necessarily. How many of you have wished the church would implement so dress codes for those who serve or have been in Christ for a while? Deb and I have. Does that make us legalistic or does it make those who warrant consideration a bit more desperate for attention than appears proper?
The author wrote
In the Body we need to realize using men’s sin and lust issues as the reason why a woman should dress a certain way is actually making her just as much an object than if she were to dress promiscuously.
Really? Is it wrong when the Bible instructs us to have regard for another brother’s sin…..and forsake the liberty we have so they won’t stumble?
Rom 14:13 — Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother’s way.
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with [thy] meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
1Cr 8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
1Cr 8:13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.
Few things are as beautiful or as powerful than a woman in luring men away or causing them to fall. The Bible is clear on that and is replete with numerous examples (and warnings) of great men of faith doing just that. King David and Solomo
n come to mind immediately.
Women are instructed to dress modestly in scripture….NEW TESTAMENT Scripture mind you. Paul is the greatest ambassador of Grace (anti-Legalism) there is yet he wrote:
1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
Peter says the same thing
1 Peter 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward [adorning] of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
Is it legalistic to expect women to submit to that? As my bride said to me earlier, a woman KNOWS when she is dressing MODESTLY and when she isn’t.
Is it legalistic for any of us to submit to GOD’s WORD in regards to other Christian Living issues / standards?
I don’t think it’s legalistic. I think it is how we should live.
The Author writes:
It is sad how much of the Christian theology centers on the man being helped and defended.
Really? I have seldom – if ever heard a sermon on women dressing modestly. Aside from that, most, if not all the New Testament Scriptures regarding a WOMAN’s ROLE in the church or in the family are NEVER Preached either.
The typical “christian” will say “that was for back then” when he / she hears some “Legalistic” dolt say
A woman should be a – discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
Everything written for the man IN THAT SAME PASSAGE APPLIES FOR TODAY….but not what it says about the woman. You aren;t likely to hear that preached today because the church views the Bible thru the lens of FEMINISM…rather than viewing Feminism thru the lens of scripture.
Just in case we missed it for our own proclivities, GOD repeated that message in 1 Tim.
1Ti 5:14 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.
Again, the church refuses to acknowledge this from the pulpit and very few will submit to that in their own lives.
I’m so glad I’ve ever stumbled upon your YouTube videos. You’re wonderful at spreading the message to the younger crowd, and to the older in some cases. I look forward to reading more of your work.
I’m in a rut with my faith at the moment, but your writing and lessons are really helping me out. Please, if you can, make one about getting back in touch with the lord as I should be, and how I can maintain communication with him. <3
Excellent argument and post Jeff! I won’t lie/ Partly because of the family and church (Southern Baptist) in which I was raised, I have become a little legalistic when it comes to women’s clothes. It’s really easy to dress a certain way simply because you want to look like a “Christian” woman and not like a “heathen” (i.e., those girls who constantly dress inappropriately); and in the process, your focus shifts from Jesus to man. In all, I just wanted to say thank you for your post. I have no doubt that God used you to speak to me and others as well!
You are so right! I love the fact that you seem to understand a man can be just as much of stumbling block for a woman as women are supposed to be for men. Something that has always bothered me is how men seem to have no modesty rules about clothing but women have them heaped upon them. I myself have been the victim of modesty rules. But now I look to the Lord and think about whether or not He would be offended by what I wear. Not people!
Dear JEFFBETHKE,
Your article rings true in every sense of God’s intention for His Bride! What a brilliant article that is straight form the heart of the Spirit.
God desires that we would first do those things that please Him. When we please Him first, all of our motives, attitudes, and decisions become pure and pleasing to God and that brings Him glory in public as well as private.
Contrary to opinion, legalism must be, and can be, avoided when we work first to please the Lord. We must ask ourselves, “Am I doing this to be in good standing with what men (or ladies) will think or am I doing this to give God glory?” The ultimate goal is to please God above men.
Again, excellent job in sharing what so many need to hear in today’s Christian culture!
Thank you,
Michelle Channon
Above all, God’s Servant
Teacher, Mother, and Grandmother
In our church I’ve heard the pastor many times poke fun and criticise men with tats and saggy jeans. He has also spoken about females who don’t dress up for Sunday. I feel like he’s alienating someone who might walk in broken and looking for help. I can’t afford nice clothes so it makes me feel bad too. BUT he never says anything about the church dancers that wear body hugging tshirts or white almost see thru tight tops that go with their long flowy skirts for performances. I really do think the dancers do a great job. BUT when they practice the guys sitting around just stop as soon as they start dancing. These girls chest bounce up and down and we all know the guys(older men too) notice and gawk. Yes I said gawk. It isn’t hidden. It’s almost like a dBL standard. “If ur Christian only the teens can be sexy… Not you women” and also”ur too thug if you don’t dress in a suit… Then ur not Christian”… Come on. It’s about the heart,,no?
My prayer for you is that you will find a church family that is Christ like and loves as He loves us! I was raised in a church setting like what you speak of and now I have found a place to belong. Where we leave judgments to God and we see Religion as a word not a practice, we choose so have relationship with Christ and be His hands and feet!
Good Luck honey and remember one place does not define them all!
So well put! I am Patiently waiting a book from you. The Lords blessed you with discernment, and a knack to teach and share your knowledge. Praise Him always
I’m so glad you wrote this. This is something I have been mentally mulling over for quite sometimes. I always feel shamed when I wear my jeans. they are not tight, but I am not wearing a skirt and this is sometimes a problem. I am not allowed to minister in anything but a skirt. Rules are rules… but in my heart I knew Jesus doesn’t hate my jeans.
I’m a jeans and t-shirt kinda girl. Modest is pretty much a one word description of me. Thanks Jeff. My heart needed to hear this, it was tired of the slave to ‘long skirt’ mentality.
I grew up in a church like that, too, where if you wore jeans, even at home only, you were pretty much considered a “backslidden” and second class Christian. Thankfully, one day I met an awesome Christian lady at work who wore *gasp* jeans all the time, but I could tell by her attitude and kindness she must be a Christian, and sure enough, one day when talking to her I found out she and her husband were youth workers at a church. Rocked my long-skirt-wearing-world, and not too long after, I am so happy in a new (and less judgemental!) church family!
I agree with a lot of what you’re saying here and appreciate that you are asking men to take responsibility for their thought life and for defrauding women with false intentions, etc. But let’s be clear: men taking responsibility for their own hearts and actions does not remove the responsibility we have as women to keep from being a stumbling block in our dress. Knowing that men were created to respond to what they see, I do need to be sure I am not making it more difficult for them by what I wear. Plenty of men place all the blame for lust on women, but let’s not fool ourselves: plenty of women blame men for being “perverts” while we leave very little to their imaginations. If we are striving to honor God, that will take care of the issue of honoring our brothers in Christ as well.
Good point. . The article finishes strong, but only after starting out muddying the issue with some outright misleading assertions. Especially as regards the sections on modesty supposedly making women an object and standards of modesty becoming an idol. Modesty is living with God’s gaze in mind, as he finally concludes. Perhaps this article strikes a chord with 2 percent who struggle with modesty. But it sort of muddies the point to the 98 percent who flaunt their bodies for all the attention they can get.
This article makes some good points. We shouldn’t subject others to our own rules, or go overboard in modesty. However, I do have a few areas of disagreement.
The article says, “No matter what a girl wears the guy has a choice whether he will let Jesus and the power of grace rule in his heart, or if he will let his flesh rule over him.” I am a guy and cannot agree with this statement. I don’t see how another guy could write this. For me it DOES matter what a woman wears. Although I agree that it’s possible to lust after a woman who is modestly clothed, I also know that it’s way harder and difficult for me to not lust when I’m forced to see a skinny girl at the store with her boobs fixing to flop out of her top. It’s not all the guys’ fault. And yes the “cause a man to stumble” argument is valid because women can cause a man to stumble by how they dress. As was already said, men are visual and they are turned on according to how much women allow men to see. Each man is different though, of course.
And just because one person finds something to be legalism, doesn’t mean it actually is. Everybody has totally different opinions as to what legalism is and isn’t. But as Jesus said, we should not judge others.
While most people seem to find this article agreeable, I feel that it contradicts itself. The ways that people dress that some people call legalism are often the same ways that others feel that God wants them to dress.
@RD although I understand your point – that women who are inappropriately dressed can make it much more difficult for a man, I agree with the writer that lust is still a personal CHOICE. If you see a skinny girl with her boobs trying to pop out, although she is inappropriate, it is still your choice to put on the mind of Christ and not entertain lustful thoughts about what she’s wearing. Another man can see the same woman and CHOOSE not to lust. You’re not going to stand before God and say “Lord she made me lust…it wasn’t my fault.” Sounds kind of like the blame game Adam played in the garden. Its almost like saying it wasn’t my fault I murdered my brother because he made me angry. He made me do it. No one can MAKE you do anything. James 1:14 says ” But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his OWN lust, and enticed.” How the woman dresses isn’t the ONLY issue…your response to how she dresses (and every other situation that causes temptation) also has to be checked. You are responsible for your own thoughts. Therefore your sin is your fault. Take responsibility for it and you will grow.
God has given us all the power through the Holy Spirit to overcome sin and temptation. Ask the Holy Spirit to help you overcome the temptation to sin when you see a woman dressed inappropriately. He is always willing and ready to save:)
Agree.this may pertain somewhere but not with anyone I know.a good sister had the modesty talk with my wife when we were courting and thank God she did.now I encourage my wife in the same thing when necessary. One man left out of the list to consult was dad. Dad first, pastor second, then the list in this article.they are given to you for your spiritual guidance and protection. They can tell you if you need to dress more modest or if you need to relax a bit
Upholding guidelines and cut off points with everything is a must in life, particularly in a less than modest constant evolution of western idealism, otherwise where will the rule of moral measure and decency end? Also, even with revelation among individual Christians one has to work out their own salvation with reverance and wholesome fear of God’s presence, or the absence of Him, in the life of a person .
I think also, that more time needs to be spent making impressions on young boys and girls. Too often parents are too busy to talk to their children and instill good value in them. Instead they sit them in front of a TV or hire a nanny and let’s face it… how well do they know these nanny’s and what they’re teaching/impressing upon your children. Little girls need to not feel so pressured to be beautiful, to think that beauty is the only thing that makes them matter in the world, and that the more beautiful you are the more desirable you are. They need to be taught more about qualities, beliefs, convictions and love. Little boys need to not be congratulated for getting a “boyfriend” their dad’s need to teach them how important it is to love and cherish women, not because of what they look like but because of what qualities they bring to the table, and because of what their hearts look like. It’s up to the parents to change the younger generation, otherwise we’ll never get anywhere.
Actually, leagalism is something Christians should take all precautions to avoid. Jesus opposed the Jewish leagalism of His day…particularly that of the Pharisees who believed that salvation rested in strict conformity to the Law of Moses and the oral traditions that had built around it. Jesus rebuked the self-righteous attitude, the hypocrisy that accompanied it, and the man-made traditions that actually subverted the word of God.
Paul also pointed out that conformity to external law never meant anything unless the heart was right (Romans 2:17-29). Legalism places utmost importance upon an outward show of holiness, while neglecting and ignoring the development of inward holiness. at least that’s what Practical Holiness has to say on the subject!
I DO believe in convictions, limitations and obeying the Word of God…but not a rigid set of rules followed just because someone says “you have to” to get to heaven. Obeying the Word of God should come from a desire to please God, not from leaglistic rules that only produces a haughty attitude and the inward man left in shambles from neglect.
AWESOME ARTICAL by the way! =) Keep it coming! We need more deep thinkers that aren’t afraid to express. what their feeling.
Great point!!!!! Jesus spent FAR more time reprimanding those Pharisees for their legalism, and not once that I can think of was a recorded instance of Christ instructing people on dress standards. When he talked to prostitutes, he didn’t even mention modesty at all. I think His point was, worry about the heart, and then let the Holy Spirit worry about the outward appearance. A heart that is close to God will naturally dress for Him, but a heart that isn’t close to God can only get distracted by the legalism of strict dress standards.
I sort of know where you’re coming from, I’ve grown up in a baptist church and christian school where modesty was enforced all the time…but I never once have seen or heard of the skirt test where the girl getts on her knees…but that’s not really my point. I’m still not really understanding how it can be more dangerous to be dressing modestly for the wrong reason than dressing scandelously. I dress modestly so that when people look at me, they can see that I’m different than the world, I’m saving myself for my husband, and not for every guy that I walk past. Is that making me an object? I don’t understand what you mean by that.
not not at all sarah! thanks for the clarifying question. What I’m saying is it comes down to the ultimate person you are dressing for. Sometimes people dress modestly first and foremost for people rather than God and by biblical definitions thats idolatry. You on the other hand sound like you are doing it out of your relationship with God which is a beautiful thing. Hope that makes sense. I was addressing intent and dressing for man regardless if its scandalous or modest. hope that helps!
I really like the points you made! The title was so scandalous, I HAD to read it! To be honest, I thought I was going to be defensive at first, but once reading through to the end, this is truth! I really feel like God has used YOU to help people like ME. I was that person caught up in behavior modification. I have been a saved Christian since I was 13, and I am now a 22 year old wife and mommy. But after being a Christian for so long, I lost sight of God’s Grace for me and others. I was going and going trying so hard to have a better relationship with Christ, struggling to have a desire to read God’s word and sit in prayer…until I saw your videos. I was stopped dead in my tracks and just crying. I watched it with my husband too. I can honestly say, now that I am strongest in my weakness, and that it has nothing to do with ME, but everything to do with HIM, I fall down on my knees in praise and worship in humility. No longer do I live out of obligation and behavior modifications. I am free! I am forgiven. I NEED forgiveness. I am not perfect. I have a heart change…and it feels so good and so free. I know this is real and true and God’s whole plan, because now I CANT WAIT to wake up and dive into God’s word! Even after a long day before or an early morning wake up from the baby. I crave it! Need it! Desire it! And it’s because God has changed my heart. And He used YOU to get to ME. Thanks for being obedient, because you just saved my relationship with Christ!
Good blog post! Encouraging to remember Who we are to dress for!
I also think ladies should consider who they are ministering too when it comes to dressing. For example, if your ministry is young college students…. you’d have a harder time drawing young people to you dressed in ankle length skirts and button up shirts (even if that is what you grew up wearing). If you are like me, and live in an area full of mennonites, amish, plain, and VERY conservative christians – then you can’t get very far dressed in knee length shorts and sleeveless tops (even if the are totally okay modesty wise). Same goes in SE Asia, Middle East, Northern Siberia, and anywhere else in the world….. it’s a wise woman who takes note of the surrounding culture and does not let her dress (modesty issue or not) become a major distraction.
Follow the advice here and “let our Savior’s grace, rather than your righteousness, be exalted through your dress.”.
Hey, Jeff. Thanks for sharing your perspective, which, BTW, I find refreshing, coming from a Christian man. I couldn’t agree more that there is a double-standard when it comes to this issue.
“In the Body we need to realize using men’s sin and lust issues as the reason why a woman should dress a certain way is actually making her just as much an object than if she were to dress promiscuously.” and then….”Imagine if men were subject to women’s “stumbling block” argument as much as women are to men? Imagine if a woman’s heart was cared for, cherished, and defended with the same tenacity that Christians defend men’s purity?” Young men need to learn how to encourage young women as brothers – with both seeking to please Christ in all respects. Having three daughters, I have been more concerned about how males view and treat them, than how covered up they are. I want them to be HONORED by young men, nurtured and cherished for who they are. And I want them to honor young men by being sensitive to them, as well.
Amen, Jeff! I especially appreciate and agree with your statement about guys texting flirtatiously with girls at night. Why isn’t that dealt with like modesty is with girls? I have no idea. But guys need to really watch what they say to girls. Guys don’t realize what a few flirty texts can do to our hearts!
Dear, Jeff
Thank you for your words in The Idolatry of Modesty post. I read the post on fb but didn’t want to become lost within all the negative comments and wanted to stay away from people in my social reality. To just give some back ground I become a Christian at an early age from searching for God on my own at the time. My family now attends church resulting in knowing Jesus more and more for which I am grateful. From an early age being convicted I also decided to dress modestly caring more about an adult’s respect than my peer’s thoughts. I felt sorry for girls lowing their standards and dressing to impress a guy at any cost. My dad’s influence probably had an impact on my view of how I should present myself. Anyways I knew there was something missing not being said that come to a pure heart with modesty and I think you nailed it. You see through my years of dressing in my fashion thrived, but professional apparel I saw and heard things from men around me that only a mini skirt should of provoke according to most churches sermons. I thought why is it that I’m dressed modestly and heres the troubling part even married men pay attention. Maybe my standards are too high for the world, but from my experience of dressing modestly then reading men, actions, body language, and words has lead me to not want to be married. If my reputation of self respect and modesty and other Christain strived characteristics did not warn off unwanted behavior from men then what would stop a man from doing so with a troubled girl if i was his wife? I have already given God the responsiblity in finding a husband if thats in the plan. Why would you not make men and women both accountable for their actions when dealing with purity? It wouldn’t be good to see a list of all women going to heaven and only half the men from the same church for example. Your comment on the dress code making a women an object really hit home for me. Once around the age of 12 I was told by two church leaders that my black gym like caprees were not Christ like. So then I was forced to wear shorts that were more loose but were too short, So short in fact that other peers made comments on those shorts being indecent! I look at it as them trying to make me into an example rather than my caprees being indecent. My mother would of not let me go on a church trip wearing indecent caprees. I didn’t let it cause any problems and still saw my standards in dress choice as being pure. I was usually the one asking the elders to do something about the girls representing our church on trips with indecent apparel. Not that I was the perfect youth or anything just wish others saw what I saw in the harm of not having self worth. I feel teaching things different could change my less wanted attention to more men knowing they have a choice as well. So I posted your words on my churches fb pages hoping to get some good feed back. May God keep useing and blessing you!
Thank you so much for your post it was a good one to read. I wholeheartedly agree that women should dress modestly, and I do make an effort to dress modestly on a daily basis because I want to help out the brothers and be honoring to Christ through my body. However, it has been said to me on multiple occasions that it’s the woman’s job to make sure the man doesn’t lust. While I agree partly with that, it has ALWAYS frustrated me that it’s always the girls being told not to dress like that and never the men being told not to think like that. I know it is much easier for me to control my clothing choices than for men to control their thoughts, I just hate that women are always blamed and shamed for “making the brothers stumble” especially because a lot of time guys make themselves stumble by letting themselves be sucked into that. As you said, I could be showing absolutely no skin/curves at all and the men would still find a way to lust after me if they really wanted to. It’s a behavior issue on both sides, women should dress to please GOD, not men, and men should keep their thoughts on things pleasing to GOD. Thank you for the work you’re doing to advance the kingdom, God really is using you in incredible ways!
Honestly, I’ve been so disgusted with the legalism of modesty (for reals, we spend more time talking about modesty than we do about sex trafficking, unjust war, unjust poverty, domestic violence, unjust wealth, irresponsible financial and global stewardship, etc) that for a while not caring about it was my way of “sticking it to the man.” It wasn’t so much that I purposefully dressed provocatively. I just didn’t worry about it. I figured if I was comfortable in it, I was fine. In some respects it grew out of a sense of pride and self-righteousness, as Abba has made me aware of. So it was really good to hear this again… If only my heart in ALL things was to serve the least of these in Jesus’ name!
Wow! Thank you so much for this. I was beginning to think I was the only one who saw it this way. I once went to church so confidently, with my head held high, ready to worship when my colaborers began making comments about the way I was dressed. I felt so ashamed and embarraced when it wasnt even the least bit provocative or revealing. I was completely covered from head to toe. I dress modestly as it is, but I unfortunately have to follow some ludacris rules placed on me by leaders or I cant take part in ministry. Its amazingly difficult to find clothes to wear and feel confident in with those rules too. . ..but oooooone day . . . One day. haha thank you again!
I have to disagree with one aspect of the post. It sounds like you are saying that modesty standards are a bad thing. This, I think, is misleading. Of course, anything can be turned into legalism – Bible reading, prayer, tithing, etc., but that doesn’t mean that any of those things are bad. I am of the opinion that modesty standards or “rules” are a good thing and here’s why: Modesty is a very subjective matter. Many women (and men) have different personal standards when it comes to their dress. You can’t expect a Catholic nun to have the same modesty standards as a converted prostitute. One may dress overly conservative trying to achieve a higher standard and look down on another for dressing modestly but not enough for that person’s strict standards. The other may dress in what they think is conservative but it is unacceptable for a meeting of the body of Christ (I have seen this many times).
Paul gives us commands to not place undue burdens on others along with not doing something that will cause your brother to sin (relating to eating meat sacrificed to idols or holidays, see Romans). A well-written modesty code prevents both legalism and allowing dress to become a stumbling block. It puts everyone on the same page. That way, someone whose personal code is more conservative believe someone dressing “looser” is sinning and women (or men) that have difficulty determining what is acceptable have a clear guideline to go from. Of course, the way you dress should be based off of love for God, but with something so subjective, it is good to get everyone on the same page with what is acceptable.
As relates to the public discipline, I agree that that is wrong. However, my experience, though limited to Christian schools and churches, is that in most cases of immodest dress, the offending individual is given a private discussion and usually let off with a warning the first time unless the dress is absolutely unacceptable (see-through, undergarments showing, overly revealing, etc.). Even for blatant repeat offenders, the scolding was private and the individuals are given the choice of going home to change or wearing something over the offending article, such as a sweat shirt/pants or jacket. I agree that any public display on modesty would make the person feel like an object, but the code itself does not lend itself to legalism any more than a command to read your Bible or keep yourself pure.
I have been thinking about this too, and what you say is very insightful. It boils down to a heart issue for both sides…we need to focus less on the outward manifestation of what is a heart issue…teach young girls who dress like celebrities, without really realizing the cultural significance of it, not that they should dress more modestly but that they are treasured creations of a loving God…thanks for your viewpoints and the way your express them….good stuff:)
Thank you for sharing this. I attended a Christian college where modesty was emphasized and encouraged–as rightly as it should be–but what the “modesty discussion” fails to acknowledge are our attitudes and labels toward others. What I mean (and what you do make note of this in your article) is that so often in society, we label women “sluts” or “sleazy” or any other host of insulting names when they dress provacatively without taking the time to discover what is really going on in their hearts and giving fuel to this type of dress. This always makes me so angry and sad for these girls/women. What message is that sending to them? “We don’t care what your motivations are for dressing this way, only the outward image you’re projecting.”
Women dress in revealing clothes because they want attention, no matter what kind. This can be a direct result of abuse, insecurity, minimal of self-worth, desire to please, etc. When we label women who dress provacatively as “sluts” or “whores,” we not only give them attention and motivation for continuing to dress this way (“I’ll show them what I’m worth!”), but we ultimately drive them farther from God. This happened far too often around my college campus: the sideways glances at the “sleazy” girls, but no comfort/outreach to help them know God and His Grace and compassion. Now, I do not intend to sound self-righteous and am actually very ashamed to say that I did not reach out to these girls either. I was afraid of the effect it would have on my reputation, which is a pretty pathetic thing to say.
Ultimately, my hope and desire for the Christian church as a whole is that we not only take responsibility for our individual modesty, but come together and offer love and acceptance to those girls–and boys–who are dressing “inappropriately.” That we could show them God’s love, no matter what their past looks like. Anyway, stepping off my little soap box, thank you for writing this and sharing with us. I really enjoyed reading this! You certainly have been given a wonderful gift and platform on which to preach God’s word. Thank you for being courageous enough to speak it loud and proud!!
stephanie, if you read comments on this post, or ones on my fb (there are more there) you’ll see it is still an issue in some schools today. In fact I was surprised at how many told me it still is happening. Shocking to say the least.
I do not agree with you. First the skirt test should not have been done in the hallway. I have seen it done during girls devotional in the beginning of the school year where there were only girls. Th at was anexample to show girls who were new christians. That helped me and it made sense. I did not do that acouple of weeks ago and left to church,isat down and my skirt went up 3inches above my knee when i sat down. I was pretty embarrassed as a wife, mom, and pastors wife. If you ever watch the today show all of those woman can barely sit down because teir skirts are to short and tight, they are twistng their legs for areason…. So you cant look between their legs. !
We all have to work out our OWN salvation with fear and trembling-pretty strong words. If for no other reason to dress modestly, what about for being a witness? How often do you hear of or see others in public approaching a woman who dresses like “everyone else” asking “what church do you attend? Something’s “different” about you?” Guaranteed-it never happens. I don’t condemn others for what they believe, yet I feel that I get attacked a lot for mine. I have a very close friend who decided that she believed differently and I never once found fault with her for that yet she will have nothing to do with me because of my personal convictions. If you go back far enough in history, all women used to dress modestly until the “equal rights” movement. Moreover, I attended a private school and never ONCE was made to get on my knees to see where my skirt fell? I just don’t see why it bothers others if I dress modestly unless they themselves feel conviction.
rebecca it seems you might have missed the point of my post. no where did I see i didn’t approve and condone of modesty. Its a beautiful thing and shows where someone’s heart truly lies. I was addressing how on some occasions it can become legalistic, which it seems with you it hasn’t. And if you read the comments on this page and my fb you’ll see stories of people who have seen the skirt test and even worse examples as well! Hope that helps, and I hope you didn’t miss my point that all I was saying was let’s do things for the right reasons
You give a lot broader analysis of this subject than Paul does, brother. Do I agree that every piece of good advice can be turned into legalism? I certainly agree with that. But let’s face it: modesty is hardly on the rise in our culture — there have been few times in the last 2000 years where being covered was a kind of fetish and was actually cheating people of the joy of salvation, and we do not live in one of them.
Paul says something else about this subject: (1 Cor 12)
21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you,” nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and on those parts of the body that we think less honorable we bestow the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty, 24 which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving greater honor to the part that lacked it, 25 that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.
Of course, here Paul is building a metaphor for the body of Christ — but his point here is that modesty is the way we make the parts of our body which are (his words) “less honorable” more presentable by treating them with “greater modesty” — greater value or esteem.
When Paul says that, he’s wisely seeing the human heart on this subject. My challenge to you and the point you’re making here is that the question in play is not really, “how modest can I be?” but instead, “how much can I get away with?” The kneel test you reference here is a perfect example of this: the question is really whether or not the one wearing the skirt was trying to find the edge of the gray area to be modest “on paper.”
We should see modesty as a virtue we are dying to fulfill — literally giving something up for the sake of others’ holiness. When we instead see it as rules others are imposing on that, that is actually the sinful heart speaking to us about alleged rights we have which the Bible never validates. Let me challenge you to rethink this matter as it seems you have taken a good principle to a questionable end with this post.
thanks brotha Frank! You are right in that we have completely lost the idea of giving something up for the sake of other’s holiness (which is fulfilled most in Jesus’ incarnation and life, death, and resurrection). In the article though I was more addressing the heart in that when a women dresses her motive she be the heart, and that modesty done for selfish (or self righteous reasons) is just as much as sinful as dressing promiscuously because it’s putting emphasis on self rather than Jesus. Of course there are spheres where dressing modestly goes unnoticed but there are also spheres where dressing modestly is seen as the sole key barometer to whether a girl is walking faithfully with Jesus. Now do i think dressing scandalous reveals the heart and a deeper issue? Of course. But just asking some pointed questions. Would love to hear your thoughts brother. Also, in your last few sentences I didn’t really get it, if you could re word that would help a lot! I went to public school so you gotta bare with me
This was a facinating article to read. I went to a strict Christian college that was less strict than the home in which I grew up. I was amazed one evening when I recieved demerits for being in my pajama pants in my room. I had gotten out of bed to go to the bathroom, when the RA walked in. Legalism ruins the spirit of the rules. I appreciate that you state that men need to control themselves and their thoughts. My husband told me flat out that men will imagine what it there, regardless of how you are dressed. He also said that it is sometimes sexier to have it all left to the imagination. I still dress very modestly… but no woman should be made to feel ashamed because she has a figure or feel that they need to wear 29 lbs of clothing (no joke for some churches) just because they must be “modest.”
I went to a very conservative Bible school who emphasized these very things. It made things very awkward simply for the fact that an RA or a dean was looking at parts of my body that they thought should be more covered, and basically that they were staring at my body to find fault.
This article also brings to mind an episode of “18 Kids and Counting” with the Duggar family. Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s a breath of fresh air to see an intact family with respectful children. But there was one episode when the girls were talking about how, when the family walks down the street together, and if the girls see a girl coming who is dressed, in their opinion, immodestly, they will holler out a “code word” so the boys will know to put their heads down or avert their eyes. To me, that episode speaks of exactly what your article addresses. If these boys can’t control their eyes, then that’s their fault, not the girl’s fault. As you said, men will think thoughts no matter what a woman is wearing. It’s their responsibility to guard their eyes.
When I was in high school, I, as well as several other girls my age, were approached by a married gentleman in the church. He and his wife pulled us girls aside and told us that they were concerned that our skirts were too short and that we shouldn’t be wearing skirts that short. All our skirts were to the knee or slightly above. To me, that speaks of someone much more concerned with the outward appearance and not their hearts or the hearts of the teen girls they were addressing.
But I say all that to say this – thank you for this excellent article. To this day (and I graduated from Bible school 9 years ago), when I think back to the rules and legalism of Bible school, it still makes me a bit angry that people live/think in such legalistic ways. I’m glad to know I’m not alone in thinking this. Thanks again!
this is refreshing. the same principle applies to some other issues, as well… issues we must be compelled to pray about, rather than obeying our hard, fast rules. thanks.
Jeff: Thank you for this post. As a middle-aged person from the Christian left, I’m surprised to find that these are still these types of rule out there. This reminds me of my childhood in the 60′s when girls were subjected to the exact same skirt test in public school. I also remember the comments made by some members of the congregation when some of the ladies started wearing slacks to church! I honestly thought we’d outgrown that.
It is interesting that modesty seems always to be focused on women and women’s behavior. I think perhaps we’d be better off focusing on humility – which can be practiced by anyone of any age or gender, and was amply demonstrated by Christ.
Thank you again for the work you are doing.
I think I agree with you article, although in my experience, I have observed very little legalism, and very much careless dress.
I only would like to challenge you on one paragraph… “everything caters to men”:
Shouldn’t we WANT to “cater” to each other? If modesty really is enforced because of men’s weakness… are we going to wait for them to become perfect before helping them not stumble? Yes, there are similar ways in which men should be careful not to tempt women. But I think to say you shouldn’t “cater” is the opposite of the view expressed, for instance, in Romans 14:14-16: That we SHOULD give regard to the weaknesses of our brothers… EVEN IF what we are refraining from isn’t even sin (!).
Gotta say that I don’t think any gals should be asking their boyfriends or “brother figures” to critique their modesty. If they have a hubby then talk to him yes, if not, then their dad. No dad worth talking to? Seek the advice of a godly women in the church.
Thank you! thank You! for posting this~ I have brought up 3 daughters through our church and Christian School and Yes they had to have their dresses a “certain” length! Theirs were always Way longer than needed so they could ‘grow into them” saving money was our thought process.. But I know that I have felt the Judgement of others as I didnt dress “per” everyone else! I feel that clothes are an expression of who you are~Through Christ~ I’m Free in Him! I pray others find thier Freedom in Christ! Seek Him! Not the world!
His Servent~ L~
Wow, very interesting article there. I never thought of modesty in that way before. You have some excellent points which I will have to keep in mind for the future! Thanks!
I will agree with the comments posted by Ben and Rachel. I’ll add to that this question. Do you have experience with churches that have dress codes and practice examining clothing of its members to see if it measures up? If so, RUN from it.
As a mother of 3 teens this is an issue that we discuss regularly. I attended a private high school in my school years in which a dress code was enforced. I can say that there is a place for knowing what your standard of dress is in your home/school. There are even standards of dress within the work place, though in some cases they are unwritten. I personally believe that tight clothes, short skirts, shorts, low cut tops, etc. are not modest, but I know women who wear these things and have a heart for God. Perhaps God has not dealt with their hearts in the same way He has dealt with mine concerning modesty. I don’t treat them any differently because of their dress, however I am not going to dress as they do because I believe that God has spoken to my heart and given me strong convictions about the way He wants me and my children to dress.
That being said my experience has been that there is no teaching in many churches concerning modesty. I’ve actually heard pastors demean women (from the pulpit) for wearing long skirts and covering their bodies. I have seen many women (of all ages – including young girls) come to church bearing their skin to the point that it is embarrassing to look at them. When a woman bends over and you can see completely down her shirt what does that profit those who look at her? While I don’t support or encourage legalism I have found that having clear guidelines about what is or is not modest is very helpful. I have prayed about this for a long time and have asked the Lord for those guidelines for our family.
I guess the point I want to make is that we need to be careful not to swing to far to one side or the other with this issue. Your article almost sounded as if encouraging modesty, teaching about modesty, or even perhaps a loving confrontation about something a sister is wearing that is too revealing is legalistic. I don’t see it that way, but neither do I purpose to impose my standards on others. In today’s society women have not (for the most part) been taught about the importance of modesty. Our society’s standards come from Hollywood or the music world for the most part. My experience has been that many Christian women just wear what is on the racks because that is the fashion and don’t even consider that there is an alternative. I believe it is important for women to learn what the Bible says about modesty and then be encouraged to put that into practice and ask God for His specific direction concerning their own wardrobe.
hey missy. thanks for the note. I said in the article, “Now, am I saying a woman should dress promiscuously? Hear me emphatically say NO. There is nothing more attractive to me than when my girlfriend dresses in a way that brings attention to her face, not her body.” So I’d have to say it didn’t seem in anyway in my article that i was saying all talk about modesty is legalistic. But, we do have to concur SOME of the talk about modesty is legalistic, and that’s what I was attacking. hope that helps!
Is it legalistic to enforce rules that promote modesty in an institution like a Christian school? Does that become a violation of grace? It seems a bit naive that high school girls and boys should be trusted to decide what their Creator deems as modest. Must a school that seeks to promote objective standards for modesty be relegated to the category of legalistic people who find comfort in their own self righteousness? Or is it possible to promote obedience to an objective standard as “exalting our Savior’s grace”?
i agree with the view at which u are looking at the issue but think you should be careful not de-emphasizing the reasons behind dressing modestly. i think saying that ” a lot of times this is just a cop out for guys to not deal with their unrepentant lust, sexual sin, and heart issues” is VERY WRONGLY PUT. even though it helps guys against lust, you also must recognize that not every one has the same spiritual level so caution must be put. Finally, the Bible records that we all will give account for every IDLE conversation made which also could include dressing. The summary of my point is that Ladies dressing Moderately is first for themselves (a show of what’s in their hearts) then for others (men and women) as far as God is concerned.
I fully appreciate this article and all of the comments. Thank you for getting to the heart of this issue. Following Jesus and keeping our hearts right with Him is the whole point. We are to love God first, and others second, and ourselves last. I just wanted to point out as something that was not touched on, and is I feel often missed, that Jesus mentions obeying and fulfilling the law in our relationship with Christ. You cannot read Romans and throw out God’s Law. The Law which Jesus came to keep perfectly, not to throw out and do away with. In Christ, through the Holy Spirit, we can also keep God’s law, which was given for our safety and our health. In the law it states that women are not to wear what men wear. I have examined this rather in depth, and I well know that men wore robes when that was written. But how ever much cultures change, God’s word does not change, so the facts remains that in this culture, in this day and age, the only thing that has been left for men to acceptably wear is pants or trousers. So it would make sense that women should not wear them. God is not the author of confusion. You should be able to tell from the back which are male and female. Everyone would think a man completely twisted and morally wrong to wear long skirts and certain other items of clothing, therefore it should be the same for women to wear those things that men do not wear. (This follows through even with the Scots, and Chinese high officials, in both of those cultures where men wear “skirts”. What the women wear is also highly defined and there is no mixing of men’s and women’s clothing.) Obviously to simplify and balance things, women must consider the command to be modest, and it helps to look at history. From practical experience I have found that women cannot actively remain decent and modest in anything shorter than full, ankle length skirts, and to the floor is even safer if you want to be able to move or climb stairs or pick up children or any of the things that most women need to do on a daily basis. For comfort and practicality women used to wear several layers of skirts, (the Chinese, Indians, Africans and most other cultures still do) and some sort of leggings or bloomers or “unmentionables” by the Victorians, – who I may add, based their dress and traditions on the Bible. Looking at history, the standard for women was the same for over 2000 years with very little exception. Women wore layers of long full skirts, (never with just underwear and a short, tight polyester slip underneath, as any woman will admit is terribly impractical and uncomfortable, though they don’t know anything else.) and men wore strait robes, shorter, knee length skirts or pants/trousers. (Men are never commanded to be modest, women are, and as kings and priests to God, then the priests wore shorts under their robes, so everything necessary for them was completely covered regardless of what else they wore.) Up until the 1900′s the whole world believed in the existence of God, and women always wore long full skirts. Even for swimming they were modestly covered. It was only around the turn of the century after Darwin introduced his theory that there may not be a God and that we evolved from monkeys, that people suddenly changed to wearing whatever they felt like according to their own conscience (or “christian traditions” which is everywhere different and confused,) with the most noticeable change being that women immediately started wearing less and less layers, tighter, then shorter skirts and soon after – pants or trousers, and it has gotten worse and worse from there until there is nothing to define modesty except what you feel comfortable in. What is considered a “modest” knee length skirt or sleeveless top in church today is what a bar maid used to wear 200 years ago. Which is where the confusion comes in, people do not look at history or think of anything besides their personal convictions based on the modern world as we know it today. This is not being legalistic, it is being realistic. You have to look at God’s Law, you look at women commanded to be modest in the New Testament, and you listen to the Holy Spirit and start studying and learning! That is the origin of all these groups who then write out legalistic standards to try to define what they personally find, and then set some kind of guides and standards for the next generation that they are responsible for bringing up to follow. The problem is that most feel that they have to compromise to what is available in the world’s standard of fashion and affordable in today’s shops. God judges the heart, and most of what people consider modest today doesn’t look very different from the world. How are people meant to ask a reason of the hope that is within us if we dress the same except a couple of inches longer or not as tight or whatever? Most “Christians” look like everyone else! I’m asking anyone reading this to seriously think for a moment; who do you know that if you met on the street for the first time you would know that they are following Christ by how they look? If someone met you on the street would they know from looking at you? I agree that we cannot make that the issue or idolize it, but it is serious, our whole witness to the world and representation of God and His holiness is at stake. I have yet to find a woman who could buck these extreme standards, wear anything where she has to shave any part of her body, and not have issues with being completely submissive. The same goes for a man allowing his girl friend, wife or daughters to wear what he does, and actually stepping up and leading his family before God. Keep thinking, don’t be willing to compromise just because it seems too extreme. Narrow is the path that leads to life, and few there be that find it.
I’m a senior at a Christian university, and I must say this topic has been on my heart and mind for a while. We have a dress code. It may not be “as” strict as some other Christian colleges in this country, but there are defined standards of dress… mainly for women. I hear over and over again from my Resident Director about how much we need to watch how we dress, to “protect the eyes of our brothers in Christ.” It grows tiresome how much I feel like we are held responsible for their lust. I am certainly not arguing against modesty. Honestly, I believe a woman’s first motivation for her dress is “self-respect.” Obviously, I don’t want a man objectifying me, but as you said, he could do that no matter what I’m wearing. I also don’t want to make it harder for men to protect their thoughts. As you’ve said, it seems the pressure is often put on women about not “making a man stumble” but men aren’t educated on how their flirty texts, those extra long hugs with girls who are “just friends” can really mess with women’s minds. Both men and women are responsible for protecting their hearts and thoughts involving our sexuality, but it seems the pressure always seems to be on the women protecting the men, but not the other way around. God created women as sexual beings just like men, but it seems like the church ignores how much women can also struggle with it.
when i was in highschool about a year ago, my girlfriend at the time would wear revealing clothing. i appreciated it in private ofcourse, because i was and still am battling issues with lust, but i couldnt stand how she dressed in public and at school. when i brought the matter up she would say that is was because her breasts were too big and thats why none of her shirts covered them. i dont mean to be crass, that was honestly what she said. we were both “christians.” im not going to speak about her because its not my place but i was a COMPLETE hypocrit and was not bearing fruit. me and my girlfriend at the time were so wrapped up into the fact that we thought God was blessing us by putting each other into each others lives but in reality we elevated our relationship to the point where it came before God and our relationship became an idol. i digress. God has allowed me to grow and is giving me great understanding when it comes to girls and all the aspects of dating, which is why i have decided to abstain from dating until i am ready to fall in love and get married.
im sorry if this is a bit off topic.
I commented earlier, but for any girls reading this and thinking even sub consciously that guys won’t be interested if they don’t dress at least similarly to everyone else, let me just give a bit of testimony. I’ve rarely worn anything but very full, floor length skirts, and short or long sleeve tops. My parents insisted that girls couldn’t work on a farm in skirts or dresses – so I worked in trousers, but whenever I wore pants/trousers to go out anywhere, like to go to youth meetings or anything else, I’d get compliments from my brothers, their christian friends, and more attention from guys in general and that got me wondering why guys never said I looked good when I wore nice skirts and dresses? I still don’t know, but I started wearing skirts to avoid some unwanted attention and instead it merely changed the set of guys interested. When I wore as extremely modest clothing as I could, not dressing down, just covering up -then older guys would ask me out – or ask me repeatedly to marry them! Those guys were interested in a wife and starting a family. So for any girls out there thinking they are ready for marriage – do dress as modestly as you can, you will at least have the peace of knowing that you aren’t getting the confused boy’s passing fancy depending on the clothes you wear. Girls, I can’t believe how many ungracious and rude comments I’ve read on here towards “guy’s lust problems” Never mind the guys with lust problems, if you girls weren’t guilty of causing it you wouldn’t say such things. If they are seeking God – they are trying to deal with their eyes and not sin, but God did make men to be turned on by seeing a woman’s body in a marriage setting and they don’t need any temptations outside of marriage. For guys that don’t have that problem – believe me, they really appreciate a modest woman. My husband has an older sister who still won’t cover up, and being faced with it all through his growing up years – he honestly just despises women that don’t dress modestly and sees them all as harlots trying to get him to sin. So girls, you’re either doing what God made you to do – being a help meet – fit for a husband – helping and supporting men in their role before God, or you’re not! And it’s likely to be the ones with problems who will come after you, but won’t really want to marry you, because deep down they can’t respect you or themselves for looking at you! I mean honestly if it’s your body that attracts a man – is he still going to be interested after you have children?? (Slightly off topic but for anyone wondering, I got engaged by email after 4 months of talking to him after church and over a 1 year of being 5000 miles apart, and now 5 children later we are still as much in love as anyone can be!) So do seek God, examine your motives, and make sure that you are totally content with God as your all in all, and surrender any desire to get married to Him. If it’s His will for you to marry – He can bring someone amazing out of the blue that is totally perfect for you. If you aren’t content in God – you won’t be contented with the opposite sex no matter what you or they wear.
whoah!! mimi, great post. i thoroughly enjoyed reading it and appreciated the spirit in wish you responded. I was encouraged, challenged, and walked away chewing more deeply on the issue. Personally I’d actually agree pretty much with your whole blog. I think I just wanted to keep it short so I didn’t get to elaborate much, and I’ll admit I spoke in hyperbole too much. Also, sorry about the grammar, I’ve been getting that comment my whole life! Still a work in progress haha. blessings.
I don’t believe god cares what a person wears. It is not our bodies but our hearts that he looks at. But because of society we have to be sure to cloth ourselves in a way that is considerate to the masses. But if we were all hermits, and all we would do is pray to Him, I doubt he would care less if we were in our birthday suits or wrapped in robes head to foot. But that is when it comes to God, because he is not swayed by perversion, whereas us humans are. In other words, I think God cares less about our dress but does care about us luring eachother into sin. But if you think about it, even if you dress modestly, you can still tempt people with your actions and words. So dressing modestly is not the only issue.
thanks for the view of modesty that i had not really looked at in depth. i agree with many of the points made. my main objection is that fashion and modesty are often judged by the world’s standards, even when looked at as a Christian. when you go into the public and see ladies with only their private parts covered, or almost covered, then you can easily rationalize that the sleeveless tank top and shorts are modest in comparison. In Victorian times, a glimpse of the ankle was considered racy. we cannot use the standards of the world to judge our own modesty. Some of the battle we are in today is the self-centeredness of “me” “I don’t want anyone telling me what to wear or not wear” Modesty is truly a heart issue for both men and women and there is scriptural basis for not beling dressed in a provocative way for men or women.
as for the argument about dress only being for our human companions and that if no one around we could worship naked, i would remind the reader about His laws for the priests that were to have undergarments on under their robes so that nothing was exosed as they served in the temple…and there was not always someone around during those times of service. If God didn’t want us to be covered, why did he make garments of skins for Adam & Eve…and note, not just for Eve.
In summary, I totally agree that the burden of preventing lust for a man should be on the man, but we should purpose in our hearts, both men and women, to live and dress modestly, not bringing attention to ourselves by the way we dress, but sharing His love to all we meet.
Hi Jeff! God Bless You
Loved the post and I definitely got your point about we ladies dressing modestly in order to please God rather than men, but I also think that in some how men’s opinion matters as well. Like, earlier I was reading some of the posts Alyssa has written about “Dating” & “The Greatest Thing a Woman can do for a Man”, and according to that I’ve understand that a truly man of God would certainly pray for a girl with at least a minimum sense of Modesty which dressing will honor God rather than herself (satisfying the flesh). I mean, correct me if I’m wrong, its just my opinion! (:
Idk if this might help to understand my point de una forma mas clara.
One thing that consistently gets left out in clothing discussion is what the term dressing modesty actually means. It is any clothes that draw attention to the person. The clothes can be covering head to toe, or a bikini. We all (men and women) should endeavor to glorify God with our dress. This includes dressing in a way that does not help our brother (or sister) sin. Yes, if they do lust, that sin is theirs. But if our dress encouraged that idea, that sin is ours.
Thank you so much for this, Jeff. I have been waiting for someone to say this! You have expressed it so well. There has been something about the attitudes I’ve heard expressed about modesty that has always bothered me. You hit the nail on the head. By the way, I just saw you at our church’s youth retreat this weekend and was very moved by your messages and your attitude.
“Every lady should ask herself when getting dressed, “am I getting dressed thinking about God’s gaze upon me or someone else’s?””
I’m confused. Considering the fact that God created us with no intention to be clothed, shouldn’t the way someone dresses be independent of “God’s gaze”? Cloths in God’s eyes should be simply our feeble mortal attempt to circumvent the embarrassment of nakedness… the nakedness that God initially created us to embrace. From this you could deduce that wearing cloths at all is a sin. I’m sure you can find your way around that riddle though seeing that you redefined the word ‘idolatry’ so effortlessly.
This article was pretty convicting, even though I came to this agreeing with all of Jeff’s points. I’m a volunteer leader in a youth group and sometimes I get so caught up in making sure the girls dress appropriately and be careful with guys that I forget two things. It’s a two way street; the boys are flirting too, though the flirting is not safe at their age or healthy, the girls are not the only ones falling into sin. Also, I teach a girl’s purity Bible study and this couldn’t have come at a better time. I was this close to talking to them about modest dress as a “don’t cause your brothers to stumble” argument. But if our ultimate goal and love is Jesus, then we should be seeking to please Him by dressing modestly. Not simply trying to be a “good Christian.” Christianity isn’t about behavior modification. It’s about living as you are before God and avoiding sin, not because it’s bad, but because you really don’t want to, God’s bigger and you know it, and, well, you just love that about Him
Many good points here. Yes, it is true that rules can often lead to legalistic behavior. But at the same time let us be clear that rules do not always = legalism. In the case of this issue including rules at some christian colleges about women’s clothing, how the rule is brought up and enforced is a big issue. I think this is a crux of the issue. I’ve been at a Christian organization that made a clear effort at how it presented it’s organizational/operational rules. It would say abiding by those rules didn’t make you a better Christian, but it had to do with the well functioning of the organization. I’ve been at place where you wonder what they are doing.
Also, there is something to be said about submitting to authority, especially when you yourself signed on the dotted line that you would attend that institution and would abide by their rules. I think there is also something to be said about learning situational appropriate dress – something with which many young people today need assistance. If there is an organization that has dress rules and tries to teach some good decorum, but you don’t like it. don’t go there. Simple as that.
I think this hot issue these days about legalism is tricky. Too often I see people getting worked up in effect saying that rules = legalism. We must be very, very careful about when and how we throw out this term. Not everything labeled “Legalism” is in fact legalism. Also, just as improper as legalism is the attitude that because I love Jesus and say His name then anything goes.
I am amazed at how poorly many Christians these days dress when they go to church. NOT saying that wearing a 3-piece suit or a Victorian gown makes us more saved. BUT we ARE going to worship our Lord, right? Shouldn’t we dress up a bit to show some respect to the One we are worshipping and the occasion we do it at?
Bottom line, how we dress matters! How women dress does in fact matter. Same goes for men. Non-religous organizations seem to get this better than many Christians which is why they have dress codes and sometimes very strict dress codes. How we dress on the outside can be a very honest and truthful reflection of us on the inside. We are commanded to be different, right? Not weird, but intentially different than the world. From my point of view I see the pendulum swinging too far away from legalism and towards a kind of “anything goes” mentality.
I never thought that modesty could become an idol, but you really pointed some stuff out that made me see this subject in a new light. We really do need to exalt the Lord through our dress (and with everything else in our lives) without becoming legalistic about it.
This is amazing. I went to a Christian University where the skirt test (as well as other tests) were taught. There were even signs in the hallway that said “Are you fine? or FINED?” referring to the fact that we would have gotten fined $25 dollars if we broke the dress code and someone reported us. Modesty was preached, but it was also ENFORCED. This, to me, created more of an attitude of rebellion among students who truly needed a heart change, not a dress change.
We also had to go to chapel two times a week, in which case we only had three allowed absences. Sometimes we even had to get “scanned in” with our student IDs if we were tardy. Most times, I thought, “How should I get credit for worshiping God?” It just didn’t seem right.
Rules are set in place for a reason, but I feel that sometimes obeying the rules, as you have so eloquently stated here – takes the focus off of pleasing God and onto pleasing man. Great post, and thank you for shedding light on this subject.
I think this guy is missing a point or two. He starts off with an example I have not seen with the girl being judged in front of everybody to see if her skirt hits the ground = acceptable.
A private school or college can enforce whatever rules or dress code they want. If you send your daughter to that school or college, you are knowingly subjecting her to that and any other man made standard they have. While you may not like it, that is not indicative of legalism in the church or condemnation.
Are school uniforms LEGALISTIC? I don’t think so. Are dress codes legalistic in and of themselves? Not necessarily. How many of you have wished the church would implement so dress codes for those who serve or have been in Christ for a while? Deb and I have. Does that make us legalistic or does it make those who warrant consideration a bit more desperate for attention than appears proper?
The author wrote
In the Body we need to realize using men’s sin and lust issues as the reason why a woman should dress a certain way is actually making her just as much an object than if she were to dress promiscuously.
Really? Is it wrong when the Bible instructs us to have regard for another brother’s sin…..and forsake the liberty we have so they won’t stumble?
Rom 14:13 — Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother’s way.
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with [thy] meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
1Cr 8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
1Cr 8:13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.
Few things are as beautiful or as powerful than a woman in luring men away or causing them to fall. The Bible is clear on that and is replete with numerous examples (and warnings) of great men of faith doing just that. King David and Solomo
n come to mind immediately.
Women are instructed to dress modestly in scripture….NEW TESTAMENT Scripture mind you. Paul is the greatest ambassador of Grace (anti-Legalism) there is yet he wrote:
1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
Peter says the same thing
1 Peter 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward [adorning] of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
Is it legalistic to expect women to submit to that? As my bride said to me earlier, a woman KNOWS when she is dressing MODESTLY and when she isn’t.
Is it legalistic for any of us to submit to GOD’s WORD in regards to other Christian Living issues / standards?
I don’t think it’s legalistic. I think it is how we should live.
The Author writes:
It is sad how much of the Christian theology centers on the man being helped and defended.
Really? I have seldom – if ever heard a sermon on women dressing modestly. Aside from that, most, if not all the New Testament Scriptures regarding a WOMAN’s ROLE in the church or in the family are NEVER Preached either.
The typical “christian” will say “that was for back then” when he / she hears some “Legalistic” dolt say
A woman should be a – discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
Everything written for the man IN THAT SAME PASSAGE APPLIES FOR TODAY….but not what it says about the woman. You aren;t likely to hear that preached today because the church views the Bible thru the lens of FEMINISM…rather than viewing Feminism thru the lens of scripture.
Just in case we missed it for our own proclivities, GOD repeated that message in 1 Tim.
1Ti 5:14 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.
Again, the church refuses to acknowledge this from the pulpit and very few will submit to that in their own lives.
I’m so glad I’ve ever stumbled upon your YouTube videos. You’re wonderful at spreading the message to the younger crowd, and to the older in some cases. I look forward to reading more of your work.
I’m in a rut with my faith at the moment, but your writing and lessons are really helping me out. Please, if you can, make one about getting back in touch with the lord as I should be, and how I can maintain communication with him. <3
Excellent argument and post Jeff! I won’t lie/ Partly because of the family and church (Southern Baptist) in which I was raised, I have become a little legalistic when it comes to women’s clothes. It’s really easy to dress a certain way simply because you want to look like a “Christian” woman and not like a “heathen” (i.e., those girls who constantly dress inappropriately); and in the process, your focus shifts from Jesus to man. In all, I just wanted to say thank you for your post. I have no doubt that God used you to speak to me and others as well!
You are so right! I love the fact that you seem to understand a man can be just as much of stumbling block for a woman as women are supposed to be for men. Something that has always bothered me is how men seem to have no modesty rules about clothing but women have them heaped upon them. I myself have been the victim of modesty rules. But now I look to the Lord and think about whether or not He would be offended by what I wear. Not people!
Legalism is one act that we Christians sometimes can’t avoid.
Dear JEFFBETHKE,
Your article rings true in every sense of God’s intention for His Bride! What a brilliant article that is straight form the heart of the Spirit.
God desires that we would first do those things that please Him. When we please Him first, all of our motives, attitudes, and decisions become pure and pleasing to God and that brings Him glory in public as well as private.
Contrary to opinion, legalism must be, and can be, avoided when we work first to please the Lord. We must ask ourselves, “Am I doing this to be in good standing with what men (or ladies) will think or am I doing this to give God glory?” The ultimate goal is to please God above men.
Again, excellent job in sharing what so many need to hear in today’s Christian culture!
Thank you,
Michelle Channon
Above all, God’s Servant
Teacher, Mother, and Grandmother
In our church I’ve heard the pastor many times poke fun and criticise men with tats and saggy jeans. He has also spoken about females who don’t dress up for Sunday. I feel like he’s alienating someone who might walk in broken and looking for help. I can’t afford nice clothes so it makes me feel bad too. BUT he never says anything about the church dancers that wear body hugging tshirts or white almost see thru tight tops that go with their long flowy skirts for performances. I really do think the dancers do a great job. BUT when they practice the guys sitting around just stop as soon as they start dancing. These girls chest bounce up and down and we all know the guys(older men too) notice and gawk. Yes I said gawk. It isn’t hidden. It’s almost like a dBL standard. “If ur Christian only the teens can be sexy… Not you women” and also”ur too thug if you don’t dress in a suit… Then ur not Christian”… Come on. It’s about the heart,,no?
My prayer for you is that you will find a church family that is Christ like and loves as He loves us! I was raised in a church setting like what you speak of and now I have found a place to belong. Where we leave judgments to God and we see Religion as a word not a practice, we choose so have relationship with Christ and be His hands and feet!
Good Luck honey and remember one place does not define them all!
@Aubrey, it is a practice that we HAVE to avoid. Actually, if we use Biblical parameters alone, we can stay clear of that nonsense.
This has actually been how I’ve felt but you definitely put into words what my feelings are towards all the modesty posts I’ve read. Thanks for this:)
So well put! I am Patiently waiting a book from you. The Lords blessed you with discernment, and a knack to teach and share your knowledge. Praise Him always
I’m so glad you wrote this. This is something I have been mentally mulling over for quite sometimes. I always feel shamed when I wear my jeans. they are not tight, but I am not wearing a skirt and this is sometimes a problem. I am not allowed to minister in anything but a skirt. Rules are rules… but in my heart I knew Jesus doesn’t hate my jeans.
I’m a jeans and t-shirt kinda girl. Modest is pretty much a one word description of me. Thanks Jeff. My heart needed to hear this, it was tired of the slave to ‘long skirt’ mentality.
I grew up in a church like that, too, where if you wore jeans, even at home only, you were pretty much considered a “backslidden” and second class Christian. Thankfully, one day I met an awesome Christian lady at work who wore *gasp* jeans all the time, but I could tell by her attitude and kindness she must be a Christian, and sure enough, one day when talking to her I found out she and her husband were youth workers at a church. Rocked my long-skirt-wearing-world, and not too long after, I am so happy in a new (and less judgemental!) church family!
I agree with a lot of what you’re saying here and appreciate that you are asking men to take responsibility for their thought life and for defrauding women with false intentions, etc. But let’s be clear: men taking responsibility for their own hearts and actions does not remove the responsibility we have as women to keep from being a stumbling block in our dress. Knowing that men were created to respond to what they see, I do need to be sure I am not making it more difficult for them by what I wear. Plenty of men place all the blame for lust on women, but let’s not fool ourselves: plenty of women blame men for being “perverts” while we leave very little to their imaginations. If we are striving to honor God, that will take care of the issue of honoring our brothers in Christ as well.
so true!! great point!!
Good point. . The article finishes strong, but only after starting out muddying the issue with some outright misleading assertions. Especially as regards the sections on modesty supposedly making women an object and standards of modesty becoming an idol. Modesty is living with God’s gaze in mind, as he finally concludes. Perhaps this article strikes a chord with 2 percent who struggle with modesty. But it sort of muddies the point to the 98 percent who flaunt their bodies for all the attention they can get.
This article makes some good points. We shouldn’t subject others to our own rules, or go overboard in modesty. However, I do have a few areas of disagreement.
The article says, “No matter what a girl wears the guy has a choice whether he will let Jesus and the power of grace rule in his heart, or if he will let his flesh rule over him.” I am a guy and cannot agree with this statement. I don’t see how another guy could write this. For me it DOES matter what a woman wears. Although I agree that it’s possible to lust after a woman who is modestly clothed, I also know that it’s way harder and difficult for me to not lust when I’m forced to see a skinny girl at the store with her boobs fixing to flop out of her top. It’s not all the guys’ fault. And yes the “cause a man to stumble” argument is valid because women can cause a man to stumble by how they dress. As was already said, men are visual and they are turned on according to how much women allow men to see. Each man is different though, of course.
And just because one person finds something to be legalism, doesn’t mean it actually is. Everybody has totally different opinions as to what legalism is and isn’t. But as Jesus said, we should not judge others.
While most people seem to find this article agreeable, I feel that it contradicts itself. The ways that people dress that some people call legalism are often the same ways that others feel that God wants them to dress.
@RD although I understand your point – that women who are inappropriately dressed can make it much more difficult for a man, I agree with the writer that lust is still a personal CHOICE. If you see a skinny girl with her boobs trying to pop out, although she is inappropriate, it is still your choice to put on the mind of Christ and not entertain lustful thoughts about what she’s wearing. Another man can see the same woman and CHOOSE not to lust. You’re not going to stand before God and say “Lord she made me lust…it wasn’t my fault.” Sounds kind of like the blame game Adam played in the garden. Its almost like saying it wasn’t my fault I murdered my brother because he made me angry. He made me do it. No one can MAKE you do anything. James 1:14 says ” But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his OWN lust, and enticed.” How the woman dresses isn’t the ONLY issue…your response to how she dresses (and every other situation that causes temptation) also has to be checked. You are responsible for your own thoughts. Therefore your sin is your fault. Take responsibility for it and you will grow.
God has given us all the power through the Holy Spirit to overcome sin and temptation. Ask the Holy Spirit to help you overcome the temptation to sin when you see a woman dressed inappropriately. He is always willing and ready to save:)
Agree.this may pertain somewhere but not with anyone I know.a good sister had the modesty talk with my wife when we were courting and thank God she did.now I encourage my wife in the same thing when necessary. One man left out of the list to consult was dad. Dad first, pastor second, then the list in this article.they are given to you for your spiritual guidance and protection. They can tell you if you need to dress more modest or if you need to relax a bit
Upholding guidelines and cut off points with everything is a must in life, particularly in a less than modest constant evolution of western idealism, otherwise where will the rule of moral measure and decency end? Also, even with revelation among individual Christians one has to work out their own salvation with reverance and wholesome fear of God’s presence, or the absence of Him, in the life of a person .
I think also, that more time needs to be spent making impressions on young boys and girls. Too often parents are too busy to talk to their children and instill good value in them. Instead they sit them in front of a TV or hire a nanny and let’s face it… how well do they know these nanny’s and what they’re teaching/impressing upon your children. Little girls need to not feel so pressured to be beautiful, to think that beauty is the only thing that makes them matter in the world, and that the more beautiful you are the more desirable you are. They need to be taught more about qualities, beliefs, convictions and love. Little boys need to not be congratulated for getting a “boyfriend” their dad’s need to teach them how important it is to love and cherish women, not because of what they look like but because of what qualities they bring to the table, and because of what their hearts look like. It’s up to the parents to change the younger generation, otherwise we’ll never get anywhere.
(I meant “girlfriend, not boyfriend, sorry!)
Sooo true
Actually, leagalism is something Christians should take all precautions to avoid. Jesus opposed the Jewish leagalism of His day…particularly that of the Pharisees who believed that salvation rested in strict conformity to the Law of Moses and the oral traditions that had built around it. Jesus rebuked the self-righteous attitude, the hypocrisy that accompanied it, and the man-made traditions that actually subverted the word of God.
Paul also pointed out that conformity to external law never meant anything unless the heart was right (Romans 2:17-29). Legalism places utmost importance upon an outward show of holiness, while neglecting and ignoring the development of inward holiness. at least that’s what Practical Holiness has to say on the subject!
I DO believe in convictions, limitations and obeying the Word of God…but not a rigid set of rules followed just because someone says “you have to” to get to heaven. Obeying the Word of God should come from a desire to please God, not from leaglistic rules that only produces a haughty attitude and the inward man left in shambles from neglect.
AWESOME ARTICAL by the way! =) Keep it coming! We need more deep thinkers that aren’t afraid to express. what their feeling.
Great point!!!!! Jesus spent FAR more time reprimanding those Pharisees for their legalism, and not once that I can think of was a recorded instance of Christ instructing people on dress standards. When he talked to prostitutes, he didn’t even mention modesty at all. I think His point was, worry about the heart, and then let the Holy Spirit worry about the outward appearance. A heart that is close to God will naturally dress for Him, but a heart that isn’t close to God can only get distracted by the legalism of strict dress standards.
*their feelings
I know someone who would really appreciate this. Thanks for the post. Yah Bless. <3
I sort of know where you’re coming from, I’ve grown up in a baptist church and christian school where modesty was enforced all the time…but I never once have seen or heard of the skirt test where the girl getts on her knees…but that’s not really my point. I’m still not really understanding how it can be more dangerous to be dressing modestly for the wrong reason than dressing scandelously. I dress modestly so that when people look at me, they can see that I’m different than the world, I’m saving myself for my husband, and not for every guy that I walk past. Is that making me an object? I don’t understand what you mean by that.
not not at all sarah! thanks for the clarifying question. What I’m saying is it comes down to the ultimate person you are dressing for. Sometimes people dress modestly first and foremost for people rather than God and by biblical definitions thats idolatry. You on the other hand sound like you are doing it out of your relationship with God which is a beautiful thing. Hope that makes sense. I was addressing intent and dressing for man regardless if its scandalous or modest. hope that helps!
Thanks for going against conventional thinking–on both sides of the issue, Jeff. Smart heart speak.
You have unfairly been granted wisdom. (and that’s saying a lot)
I really like the points you made! The title was so scandalous, I HAD to read it! To be honest, I thought I was going to be defensive at first, but once reading through to the end, this is truth! I really feel like God has used YOU to help people like ME. I was that person caught up in behavior modification. I have been a saved Christian since I was 13, and I am now a 22 year old wife and mommy. But after being a Christian for so long, I lost sight of God’s Grace for me and others. I was going and going trying so hard to have a better relationship with Christ, struggling to have a desire to read God’s word and sit in prayer…until I saw your videos. I was stopped dead in my tracks and just crying. I watched it with my husband too. I can honestly say, now that I am strongest in my weakness, and that it has nothing to do with ME, but everything to do with HIM, I fall down on my knees in praise and worship in humility. No longer do I live out of obligation and behavior modifications. I am free! I am forgiven. I NEED forgiveness. I am not perfect. I have a heart change…and it feels so good and so free. I know this is real and true and God’s whole plan, because now I CANT WAIT to wake up and dive into God’s word! Even after a long day before or an early morning wake up from the baby. I crave it! Need it! Desire it! And it’s because God has changed my heart. And He used YOU to get to ME. Thanks for being obedient, because you just saved my relationship with Christ!
Good blog post! Encouraging to remember Who we are to dress for!
I also think ladies should consider who they are ministering too when it comes to dressing. For example, if your ministry is young college students…. you’d have a harder time drawing young people to you dressed in ankle length skirts and button up shirts (even if that is what you grew up wearing). If you are like me, and live in an area full of mennonites, amish, plain, and VERY conservative christians – then you can’t get very far dressed in knee length shorts and sleeveless tops (even if the are totally okay modesty wise). Same goes in SE Asia, Middle East, Northern Siberia, and anywhere else in the world….. it’s a wise woman who takes note of the surrounding culture and does not let her dress (modesty issue or not) become a major distraction.
Follow the advice here and “let our Savior’s grace, rather than your righteousness, be exalted through your dress.”.
This is actually quite good, thank you for letting God speak through you
Hey, Jeff. Thanks for sharing your perspective, which, BTW, I find refreshing, coming from a Christian man. I couldn’t agree more that there is a double-standard when it comes to this issue.
“In the Body we need to realize using men’s sin and lust issues as the reason why a woman should dress a certain way is actually making her just as much an object than if she were to dress promiscuously.” and then….”Imagine if men were subject to women’s “stumbling block” argument as much as women are to men? Imagine if a woman’s heart was cared for, cherished, and defended with the same tenacity that Christians defend men’s purity?” Young men need to learn how to encourage young women as brothers – with both seeking to please Christ in all respects. Having three daughters, I have been more concerned about how males view and treat them, than how covered up they are. I want them to be HONORED by young men, nurtured and cherished for who they are. And I want them to honor young men by being sensitive to them, as well.
Thanks again…Jeff….
Amen, Jeff! I especially appreciate and agree with your statement about guys texting flirtatiously with girls at night. Why isn’t that dealt with like modesty is with girls? I have no idea. But guys need to really watch what they say to girls. Guys don’t realize what a few flirty texts can do to our hearts!
Dear, Jeff
Thank you for your words in The Idolatry of Modesty post. I read the post on fb but didn’t want to become lost within all the negative comments and wanted to stay away from people in my social reality. To just give some back ground I become a Christian at an early age from searching for God on my own at the time. My family now attends church resulting in knowing Jesus more and more for which I am grateful. From an early age being convicted I also decided to dress modestly caring more about an adult’s respect than my peer’s thoughts. I felt sorry for girls lowing their standards and dressing to impress a guy at any cost. My dad’s influence probably had an impact on my view of how I should present myself. Anyways I knew there was something missing not being said that come to a pure heart with modesty and I think you nailed it. You see through my years of dressing in my fashion thrived, but professional apparel I saw and heard things from men around me that only a mini skirt should of provoke according to most churches sermons. I thought why is it that I’m dressed modestly and heres the troubling part even married men pay attention. Maybe my standards are too high for the world, but from my experience of dressing modestly then reading men, actions, body language, and words has lead me to not want to be married. If my reputation of self respect and modesty and other Christain strived characteristics did not warn off unwanted behavior from men then what would stop a man from doing so with a troubled girl if i was his wife? I have already given God the responsiblity in finding a husband if thats in the plan. Why would you not make men and women both accountable for their actions when dealing with purity? It wouldn’t be good to see a list of all women going to heaven and only half the men from the same church for example. Your comment on the dress code making a women an object really hit home for me. Once around the age of 12 I was told by two church leaders that my black gym like caprees were not Christ like. So then I was forced to wear shorts that were more loose but were too short, So short in fact that other peers made comments on those shorts being indecent! I look at it as them trying to make me into an example rather than my caprees being indecent. My mother would of not let me go on a church trip wearing indecent caprees. I didn’t let it cause any problems and still saw my standards in dress choice as being pure. I was usually the one asking the elders to do something about the girls representing our church on trips with indecent apparel. Not that I was the perfect youth or anything just wish others saw what I saw in the harm of not having self worth. I feel teaching things different could change my less wanted attention to more men knowing they have a choice as well. So I posted your words on my churches fb pages hoping to get some good feed back. May God keep useing and blessing you!
Thank you so much for your post it was a good one to read. I wholeheartedly agree that women should dress modestly, and I do make an effort to dress modestly on a daily basis because I want to help out the brothers and be honoring to Christ through my body. However, it has been said to me on multiple occasions that it’s the woman’s job to make sure the man doesn’t lust. While I agree partly with that, it has ALWAYS frustrated me that it’s always the girls being told not to dress like that and never the men being told not to think like that. I know it is much easier for me to control my clothing choices than for men to control their thoughts, I just hate that women are always blamed and shamed for “making the brothers stumble” especially because a lot of time guys make themselves stumble by letting themselves be sucked into that. As you said, I could be showing absolutely no skin/curves at all and the men would still find a way to lust after me if they really wanted to. It’s a behavior issue on both sides, women should dress to please GOD, not men, and men should keep their thoughts on things pleasing to GOD. Thank you for the work you’re doing to advance the kingdom, God really is using you in incredible ways!
Honestly, I’ve been so disgusted with the legalism of modesty (for reals, we spend more time talking about modesty than we do about sex trafficking, unjust war, unjust poverty, domestic violence, unjust wealth, irresponsible financial and global stewardship, etc) that for a while not caring about it was my way of “sticking it to the man.” It wasn’t so much that I purposefully dressed provocatively. I just didn’t worry about it. I figured if I was comfortable in it, I was fine. In some respects it grew out of a sense of pride and self-righteousness, as Abba has made me aware of. So it was really good to hear this again… If only my heart in ALL things was to serve the least of these in Jesus’ name!
Wow! Thank you so much for this. I was beginning to think I was the only one who saw it this way. I once went to church so confidently, with my head held high, ready to worship when my colaborers began making comments about the way I was dressed. I felt so ashamed and embarraced when it wasnt even the least bit provocative or revealing. I was completely covered from head to toe. I dress modestly as it is, but I unfortunately have to follow some ludacris rules placed on me by leaders or I cant take part in ministry. Its amazingly difficult to find clothes to wear and feel confident in with those rules too. . ..but oooooone day . . . One day.
haha thank you again!
I have to disagree with one aspect of the post. It sounds like you are saying that modesty standards are a bad thing. This, I think, is misleading. Of course, anything can be turned into legalism – Bible reading, prayer, tithing, etc., but that doesn’t mean that any of those things are bad. I am of the opinion that modesty standards or “rules” are a good thing and here’s why: Modesty is a very subjective matter. Many women (and men) have different personal standards when it comes to their dress. You can’t expect a Catholic nun to have the same modesty standards as a converted prostitute. One may dress overly conservative trying to achieve a higher standard and look down on another for dressing modestly but not enough for that person’s strict standards. The other may dress in what they think is conservative but it is unacceptable for a meeting of the body of Christ (I have seen this many times).
Paul gives us commands to not place undue burdens on others along with not doing something that will cause your brother to sin (relating to eating meat sacrificed to idols or holidays, see Romans). A well-written modesty code prevents both legalism and allowing dress to become a stumbling block. It puts everyone on the same page. That way, someone whose personal code is more conservative believe someone dressing “looser” is sinning and women (or men) that have difficulty determining what is acceptable have a clear guideline to go from. Of course, the way you dress should be based off of love for God, but with something so subjective, it is good to get everyone on the same page with what is acceptable.
As relates to the public discipline, I agree that that is wrong. However, my experience, though limited to Christian schools and churches, is that in most cases of immodest dress, the offending individual is given a private discussion and usually let off with a warning the first time unless the dress is absolutely unacceptable (see-through, undergarments showing, overly revealing, etc.). Even for blatant repeat offenders, the scolding was private and the individuals are given the choice of going home to change or wearing something over the offending article, such as a sweat shirt/pants or jacket. I agree that any public display on modesty would make the person feel like an object, but the code itself does not lend itself to legalism any more than a command to read your Bible or keep yourself pure.
I have been thinking about this too, and what you say is very insightful. It boils down to a heart issue for both sides…we need to focus less on the outward manifestation of what is a heart issue…teach young girls who dress like celebrities, without really realizing the cultural significance of it, not that they should dress more modestly but that they are treasured creations of a loving God…thanks for your viewpoints and the way your express them….good stuff:)
Thank you for sharing this. I attended a Christian college where modesty was emphasized and encouraged–as rightly as it should be–but what the “modesty discussion” fails to acknowledge are our attitudes and labels toward others. What I mean (and what you do make note of this in your article) is that so often in society, we label women “sluts” or “sleazy” or any other host of insulting names when they dress provacatively without taking the time to discover what is really going on in their hearts and giving fuel to this type of dress. This always makes me so angry and sad for these girls/women. What message is that sending to them? “We don’t care what your motivations are for dressing this way, only the outward image you’re projecting.”
Women dress in revealing clothes because they want attention, no matter what kind. This can be a direct result of abuse, insecurity, minimal of self-worth, desire to please, etc. When we label women who dress provacatively as “sluts” or “whores,” we not only give them attention and motivation for continuing to dress this way (“I’ll show them what I’m worth!”), but we ultimately drive them farther from God. This happened far too often around my college campus: the sideways glances at the “sleazy” girls, but no comfort/outreach to help them know God and His Grace and compassion. Now, I do not intend to sound self-righteous and am actually very ashamed to say that I did not reach out to these girls either. I was afraid of the effect it would have on my reputation, which is a pretty pathetic thing to say.
Ultimately, my hope and desire for the Christian church as a whole is that we not only take responsibility for our individual modesty, but come together and offer love and acceptance to those girls–and boys–who are dressing “inappropriately.” That we could show them God’s love, no matter what their past looks like. Anyway, stepping off my little soap box, thank you for writing this and sharing with us. I really enjoyed reading this! You certainly have been given a wonderful gift and platform on which to preach God’s word. Thank you for being courageous enough to speak it loud and proud!!
Thanks for the insight, Jeff – it really made me re-think my approach in sharing about modesty
Skirt rule really? How about a post on segregated drinking fountains?
stephanie, if you read comments on this post, or ones on my fb (there are more there) you’ll see it is still an issue in some schools today. In fact I was surprised at how many told me it still is happening. Shocking to say the least.
I do not agree with you. First the skirt test should not have been done in the hallway. I have seen it done during girls devotional in the beginning of the school year where there were only girls. Th at was anexample to show girls who were new christians. That helped me and it made sense. I did not do that acouple of weeks ago and left to church,isat down and my skirt went up 3inches above my knee when i sat down. I was pretty embarrassed as a wife, mom, and pastors wife. If you ever watch the today show all of those woman can barely sit down because teir skirts are to short and tight, they are twistng their legs for areason…. So you cant look between their legs. !
We all have to work out our OWN salvation with fear and trembling-pretty strong words. If for no other reason to dress modestly, what about for being a witness? How often do you hear of or see others in public approaching a woman who dresses like “everyone else” asking “what church do you attend? Something’s “different” about you?” Guaranteed-it never happens. I don’t condemn others for what they believe, yet I feel that I get attacked a lot for mine. I have a very close friend who decided that she believed differently and I never once found fault with her for that yet she will have nothing to do with me because of my personal convictions. If you go back far enough in history, all women used to dress modestly until the “equal rights” movement. Moreover, I attended a private school and never ONCE was made to get on my knees to see where my skirt fell? I just don’t see why it bothers others if I dress modestly unless they themselves feel conviction.
rebecca it seems you might have missed the point of my post. no where did I see i didn’t approve and condone of modesty. Its a beautiful thing and shows where someone’s heart truly lies. I was addressing how on some occasions it can become legalistic, which it seems with you it hasn’t. And if you read the comments on this page and my fb you’ll see stories of people who have seen the skirt test and even worse examples as well! Hope that helps, and I hope you didn’t miss my point that all I was saying was let’s do things for the right reasons
Thank you!! Amen! More Christians need to be thinking like this and more concerned with their own hearts than what others are doing.
Hi Jeff –
You give a lot broader analysis of this subject than Paul does, brother. Do I agree that every piece of good advice can be turned into legalism? I certainly agree with that. But let’s face it: modesty is hardly on the rise in our culture — there have been few times in the last 2000 years where being covered was a kind of fetish and was actually cheating people of the joy of salvation, and we do not live in one of them.
Paul says something else about this subject: (1 Cor 12)
21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you,” nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and on those parts of the body that we think less honorable we bestow the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty, 24 which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving greater honor to the part that lacked it, 25 that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.
Of course, here Paul is building a metaphor for the body of Christ — but his point here is that modesty is the way we make the parts of our body which are (his words) “less honorable” more presentable by treating them with “greater modesty” — greater value or esteem.
When Paul says that, he’s wisely seeing the human heart on this subject. My challenge to you and the point you’re making here is that the question in play is not really, “how modest can I be?” but instead, “how much can I get away with?” The kneel test you reference here is a perfect example of this: the question is really whether or not the one wearing the skirt was trying to find the edge of the gray area to be modest “on paper.”
We should see modesty as a virtue we are dying to fulfill — literally giving something up for the sake of others’ holiness. When we instead see it as rules others are imposing on that, that is actually the sinful heart speaking to us about alleged rights we have which the Bible never validates. Let me challenge you to rethink this matter as it seems you have taken a good principle to a questionable end with this post.
Peace ~FT
thanks brotha Frank! You are right in that we have completely lost the idea of giving something up for the sake of other’s holiness (which is fulfilled most in Jesus’ incarnation and life, death, and resurrection). In the article though I was more addressing the heart in that when a women dresses her motive she be the heart, and that modesty done for selfish (or self righteous reasons) is just as much as sinful as dressing promiscuously because it’s putting emphasis on self rather than Jesus. Of course there are spheres where dressing modestly goes unnoticed but there are also spheres where dressing modestly is seen as the sole key barometer to whether a girl is walking faithfully with Jesus. Now do i think dressing scandalous reveals the heart and a deeper issue? Of course. But just asking some pointed questions. Would love to hear your thoughts brother. Also, in your last few sentences I didn’t really get it, if you could re word that would help a lot! I went to public school so you gotta bare with me
This was a facinating article to read. I went to a strict Christian college that was less strict than the home in which I grew up. I was amazed one evening when I recieved demerits for being in my pajama pants in my room. I had gotten out of bed to go to the bathroom, when the RA walked in. Legalism ruins the spirit of the rules. I appreciate that you state that men need to control themselves and their thoughts. My husband told me flat out that men will imagine what it there, regardless of how you are dressed. He also said that it is sometimes sexier to have it all left to the imagination. I still dress very modestly… but no woman should be made to feel ashamed because she has a figure or feel that they need to wear 29 lbs of clothing (no joke for some churches) just because they must be “modest.”
I went to a very conservative Bible school who emphasized these very things. It made things very awkward simply for the fact that an RA or a dean was looking at parts of my body that they thought should be more covered, and basically that they were staring at my body to find fault.
This article also brings to mind an episode of “18 Kids and Counting” with the Duggar family. Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s a breath of fresh air to see an intact family with respectful children. But there was one episode when the girls were talking about how, when the family walks down the street together, and if the girls see a girl coming who is dressed, in their opinion, immodestly, they will holler out a “code word” so the boys will know to put their heads down or avert their eyes. To me, that episode speaks of exactly what your article addresses. If these boys can’t control their eyes, then that’s their fault, not the girl’s fault. As you said, men will think thoughts no matter what a woman is wearing. It’s their responsibility to guard their eyes.
When I was in high school, I, as well as several other girls my age, were approached by a married gentleman in the church. He and his wife pulled us girls aside and told us that they were concerned that our skirts were too short and that we shouldn’t be wearing skirts that short. All our skirts were to the knee or slightly above. To me, that speaks of someone much more concerned with the outward appearance and not their hearts or the hearts of the teen girls they were addressing.
But I say all that to say this – thank you for this excellent article. To this day (and I graduated from Bible school 9 years ago), when I think back to the rules and legalism of Bible school, it still makes me a bit angry that people live/think in such legalistic ways. I’m glad to know I’m not alone in thinking this. Thanks again!
this is refreshing. the same principle applies to some other issues, as well… issues we must be compelled to pray about, rather than obeying our hard, fast rules. thanks.
Jeff: Thank you for this post. As a middle-aged person from the Christian left, I’m surprised to find that these are still these types of rule out there. This reminds me of my childhood in the 60′s when girls were subjected to the exact same skirt test in public school. I also remember the comments made by some members of the congregation when some of the ladies started wearing slacks to church! I honestly thought we’d outgrown that.
It is interesting that modesty seems always to be focused on women and women’s behavior. I think perhaps we’d be better off focusing on humility – which can be practiced by anyone of any age or gender, and was amply demonstrated by Christ.
Thank you again for the work you are doing.
I think I agree with you article, although in my experience, I have observed very little legalism, and very much careless dress.
I only would like to challenge you on one paragraph… “everything caters to men”:
Shouldn’t we WANT to “cater” to each other? If modesty really is enforced because of men’s weakness… are we going to wait for them to become perfect before helping them not stumble? Yes, there are similar ways in which men should be careful not to tempt women. But I think to say you shouldn’t “cater” is the opposite of the view expressed, for instance, in Romans 14:14-16: That we SHOULD give regard to the weaknesses of our brothers… EVEN IF what we are refraining from isn’t even sin (!).
Gotta say that I don’t think any gals should be asking their boyfriends or “brother figures” to critique their modesty. If they have a hubby then talk to him yes, if not, then their dad. No dad worth talking to? Seek the advice of a godly women in the church.
Thank you! thank You! for posting this~ I have brought up 3 daughters through our church and Christian School and Yes they had to have their dresses a “certain” length! Theirs were always Way longer than needed so they could ‘grow into them” saving money was our thought process.. But I know that I have felt the Judgement of others as I didnt dress “per” everyone else! I feel that clothes are an expression of who you are~Through Christ~ I’m Free in Him! I pray others find thier Freedom in Christ! Seek Him! Not the world!
His Servent~ L~
Wow, very interesting article there. I never thought of modesty in that way before. You have some excellent points which I will have to keep in mind for the future! Thanks!
I will agree with the comments posted by Ben and Rachel. I’ll add to that this question. Do you have experience with churches that have dress codes and practice examining clothing of its members to see if it measures up? If so, RUN from it.
As a mother of 3 teens this is an issue that we discuss regularly. I attended a private high school in my school years in which a dress code was enforced. I can say that there is a place for knowing what your standard of dress is in your home/school. There are even standards of dress within the work place, though in some cases they are unwritten. I personally believe that tight clothes, short skirts, shorts, low cut tops, etc. are not modest, but I know women who wear these things and have a heart for God. Perhaps God has not dealt with their hearts in the same way He has dealt with mine concerning modesty. I don’t treat them any differently because of their dress, however I am not going to dress as they do because I believe that God has spoken to my heart and given me strong convictions about the way He wants me and my children to dress.
That being said my experience has been that there is no teaching in many churches concerning modesty. I’ve actually heard pastors demean women (from the pulpit) for wearing long skirts and covering their bodies. I have seen many women (of all ages – including young girls) come to church bearing their skin to the point that it is embarrassing to look at them. When a woman bends over and you can see completely down her shirt what does that profit those who look at her? While I don’t support or encourage legalism I have found that having clear guidelines about what is or is not modest is very helpful. I have prayed about this for a long time and have asked the Lord for those guidelines for our family.
I guess the point I want to make is that we need to be careful not to swing to far to one side or the other with this issue. Your article almost sounded as if encouraging modesty, teaching about modesty, or even perhaps a loving confrontation about something a sister is wearing that is too revealing is legalistic. I don’t see it that way, but neither do I purpose to impose my standards on others. In today’s society women have not (for the most part) been taught about the importance of modesty. Our society’s standards come from Hollywood or the music world for the most part. My experience has been that many Christian women just wear what is on the racks because that is the fashion and don’t even consider that there is an alternative. I believe it is important for women to learn what the Bible says about modesty and then be encouraged to put that into practice and ask God for His specific direction concerning their own wardrobe.
hey missy. thanks for the note. I said in the article, “Now, am I saying a woman should dress promiscuously? Hear me emphatically say NO. There is nothing more attractive to me than when my girlfriend dresses in a way that brings attention to her face, not her body.” So I’d have to say it didn’t seem in anyway in my article that i was saying all talk about modesty is legalistic. But, we do have to concur SOME of the talk about modesty is legalistic, and that’s what I was attacking. hope that helps!
Is it legalistic to enforce rules that promote modesty in an institution like a Christian school? Does that become a violation of grace? It seems a bit naive that high school girls and boys should be trusted to decide what their Creator deems as modest. Must a school that seeks to promote objective standards for modesty be relegated to the category of legalistic people who find comfort in their own self righteousness? Or is it possible to promote obedience to an objective standard as “exalting our Savior’s grace”?
i agree with the view at which u are looking at the issue but think you should be careful not de-emphasizing the reasons behind dressing modestly. i think saying that ” a lot of times this is just a cop out for guys to not deal with their unrepentant lust, sexual sin, and heart issues” is VERY WRONGLY PUT. even though it helps guys against lust, you also must recognize that not every one has the same spiritual level so caution must be put. Finally, the Bible records that we all will give account for every IDLE conversation made which also could include dressing. The summary of my point is that Ladies dressing Moderately is first for themselves (a show of what’s in their hearts) then for others (men and women) as far as God is concerned.
You spoke my heart! I’ve been sharing this same perspective one-on-one with guys and gals. It’s so good to see it in print! Thank you!
I fully appreciate this article and all of the comments. Thank you for getting to the heart of this issue. Following Jesus and keeping our hearts right with Him is the whole point. We are to love God first, and others second, and ourselves last. I just wanted to point out as something that was not touched on, and is I feel often missed, that Jesus mentions obeying and fulfilling the law in our relationship with Christ. You cannot read Romans and throw out God’s Law. The Law which Jesus came to keep perfectly, not to throw out and do away with. In Christ, through the Holy Spirit, we can also keep God’s law, which was given for our safety and our health. In the law it states that women are not to wear what men wear. I have examined this rather in depth, and I well know that men wore robes when that was written. But how ever much cultures change, God’s word does not change, so the facts remains that in this culture, in this day and age, the only thing that has been left for men to acceptably wear is pants or trousers. So it would make sense that women should not wear them. God is not the author of confusion. You should be able to tell from the back which are male and female. Everyone would think a man completely twisted and morally wrong to wear long skirts and certain other items of clothing, therefore it should be the same for women to wear those things that men do not wear. (This follows through even with the Scots, and Chinese high officials, in both of those cultures where men wear “skirts”. What the women wear is also highly defined and there is no mixing of men’s and women’s clothing.) Obviously to simplify and balance things, women must consider the command to be modest, and it helps to look at history. From practical experience I have found that women cannot actively remain decent and modest in anything shorter than full, ankle length skirts, and to the floor is even safer if you want to be able to move or climb stairs or pick up children or any of the things that most women need to do on a daily basis. For comfort and practicality women used to wear several layers of skirts, (the Chinese, Indians, Africans and most other cultures still do) and some sort of leggings or bloomers or “unmentionables” by the Victorians, – who I may add, based their dress and traditions on the Bible. Looking at history, the standard for women was the same for over 2000 years with very little exception. Women wore layers of long full skirts, (never with just underwear and a short, tight polyester slip underneath, as any woman will admit is terribly impractical and uncomfortable, though they don’t know anything else.) and men wore strait robes, shorter, knee length skirts or pants/trousers. (Men are never commanded to be modest, women are, and as kings and priests to God, then the priests wore shorts under their robes, so everything necessary for them was completely covered regardless of what else they wore.) Up until the 1900′s the whole world believed in the existence of God, and women always wore long full skirts. Even for swimming they were modestly covered. It was only around the turn of the century after Darwin introduced his theory that there may not be a God and that we evolved from monkeys, that people suddenly changed to wearing whatever they felt like according to their own conscience (or “christian traditions” which is everywhere different and confused,) with the most noticeable change being that women immediately started wearing less and less layers, tighter, then shorter skirts and soon after – pants or trousers, and it has gotten worse and worse from there until there is nothing to define modesty except what you feel comfortable in. What is considered a “modest” knee length skirt or sleeveless top in church today is what a bar maid used to wear 200 years ago. Which is where the confusion comes in, people do not look at history or think of anything besides their personal convictions based on the modern world as we know it today. This is not being legalistic, it is being realistic. You have to look at God’s Law, you look at women commanded to be modest in the New Testament, and you listen to the Holy Spirit and start studying and learning! That is the origin of all these groups who then write out legalistic standards to try to define what they personally find, and then set some kind of guides and standards for the next generation that they are responsible for bringing up to follow. The problem is that most feel that they have to compromise to what is available in the world’s standard of fashion and affordable in today’s shops. God judges the heart, and most of what people consider modest today doesn’t look very different from the world. How are people meant to ask a reason of the hope that is within us if we dress the same except a couple of inches longer or not as tight or whatever? Most “Christians” look like everyone else! I’m asking anyone reading this to seriously think for a moment; who do you know that if you met on the street for the first time you would know that they are following Christ by how they look? If someone met you on the street would they know from looking at you? I agree that we cannot make that the issue or idolize it, but it is serious, our whole witness to the world and representation of God and His holiness is at stake. I have yet to find a woman who could buck these extreme standards, wear anything where she has to shave any part of her body, and not have issues with being completely submissive. The same goes for a man allowing his girl friend, wife or daughters to wear what he does, and actually stepping up and leading his family before God. Keep thinking, don’t be willing to compromise just because it seems too extreme. Narrow is the path that leads to life, and few there be that find it.
I’m a senior at a Christian university, and I must say this topic has been on my heart and mind for a while. We have a dress code. It may not be “as” strict as some other Christian colleges in this country, but there are defined standards of dress… mainly for women. I hear over and over again from my Resident Director about how much we need to watch how we dress, to “protect the eyes of our brothers in Christ.” It grows tiresome how much I feel like we are held responsible for their lust. I am certainly not arguing against modesty. Honestly, I believe a woman’s first motivation for her dress is “self-respect.” Obviously, I don’t want a man objectifying me, but as you said, he could do that no matter what I’m wearing. I also don’t want to make it harder for men to protect their thoughts. As you’ve said, it seems the pressure is often put on women about not “making a man stumble” but men aren’t educated on how their flirty texts, those extra long hugs with girls who are “just friends” can really mess with women’s minds. Both men and women are responsible for protecting their hearts and thoughts involving our sexuality, but it seems the pressure always seems to be on the women protecting the men, but not the other way around. God created women as sexual beings just like men, but it seems like the church ignores how much women can also struggle with it.
when i was in highschool about a year ago, my girlfriend at the time would wear revealing clothing. i appreciated it in private ofcourse, because i was and still am battling issues with lust, but i couldnt stand how she dressed in public and at school. when i brought the matter up she would say that is was because her breasts were too big and thats why none of her shirts covered them. i dont mean to be crass, that was honestly what she said. we were both “christians.” im not going to speak about her because its not my place but i was a COMPLETE hypocrit and was not bearing fruit. me and my girlfriend at the time were so wrapped up into the fact that we thought God was blessing us by putting each other into each others lives but in reality we elevated our relationship to the point where it came before God and our relationship became an idol. i digress. God has allowed me to grow and is giving me great understanding when it comes to girls and all the aspects of dating, which is why i have decided to abstain from dating until i am ready to fall in love and get married.
im sorry if this is a bit off topic.
I commented earlier, but for any girls reading this and thinking even sub consciously that guys won’t be interested if they don’t dress at least similarly to everyone else, let me just give a bit of testimony. I’ve rarely worn anything but very full, floor length skirts, and short or long sleeve tops. My parents insisted that girls couldn’t work on a farm in skirts or dresses – so I worked in trousers, but whenever I wore pants/trousers to go out anywhere, like to go to youth meetings or anything else, I’d get compliments from my brothers, their christian friends, and more attention from guys in general and that got me wondering why guys never said I looked good when I wore nice skirts and dresses? I still don’t know, but I started wearing skirts to avoid some unwanted attention and instead it merely changed the set of guys interested. When I wore as extremely modest clothing as I could, not dressing down, just covering up -then older guys would ask me out – or ask me repeatedly to marry them! Those guys were interested in a wife and starting a family. So for any girls out there thinking they are ready for marriage – do dress as modestly as you can, you will at least have the peace of knowing that you aren’t getting the confused boy’s passing fancy depending on the clothes you wear. Girls, I can’t believe how many ungracious and rude comments I’ve read on here towards “guy’s lust problems” Never mind the guys with lust problems, if you girls weren’t guilty of causing it you wouldn’t say such things. If they are seeking God – they are trying to deal with their eyes and not sin, but God did make men to be turned on by seeing a woman’s body in a marriage setting and they don’t need any temptations outside of marriage. For guys that don’t have that problem – believe me, they really appreciate a modest woman. My husband has an older sister who still won’t cover up, and being faced with it all through his growing up years – he honestly just despises women that don’t dress modestly and sees them all as harlots trying to get him to sin. So girls, you’re either doing what God made you to do – being a help meet – fit for a husband – helping and supporting men in their role before God, or you’re not! And it’s likely to be the ones with problems who will come after you, but won’t really want to marry you, because deep down they can’t respect you or themselves for looking at you! I mean honestly if it’s your body that attracts a man – is he still going to be interested after you have children?? (Slightly off topic but for anyone wondering, I got engaged by email after 4 months of talking to him after church and over a 1 year of being 5000 miles apart, and now 5 children later we are still as much in love as anyone can be!) So do seek God, examine your motives, and make sure that you are totally content with God as your all in all, and surrender any desire to get married to Him. If it’s His will for you to marry – He can bring someone amazing out of the blue that is totally perfect for you. If you aren’t content in God – you won’t be contented with the opposite sex no matter what you or they wear.
a response- http://belovedstranger.wordpress.com/2012/05/09/fine-lines-in-modesty/
whoah!! mimi, great post. i thoroughly enjoyed reading it and appreciated the spirit in wish you responded. I was encouraged, challenged, and walked away chewing more deeply on the issue. Personally I’d actually agree pretty much with your whole blog. I think I just wanted to keep it short so I didn’t get to elaborate much, and I’ll admit I spoke in hyperbole too much. Also, sorry about the grammar, I’ve been getting that comment my whole life!
Still a work in progress haha. blessings.
I don’t believe god cares what a person wears. It is not our bodies but our hearts that he looks at. But because of society we have to be sure to cloth ourselves in a way that is considerate to the masses. But if we were all hermits, and all we would do is pray to Him, I doubt he would care less if we were in our birthday suits or wrapped in robes head to foot. But that is when it comes to God, because he is not swayed by perversion, whereas us humans are. In other words, I think God cares less about our dress but does care about us luring eachother into sin. But if you think about it, even if you dress modestly, you can still tempt people with your actions and words. So dressing modestly is not the only issue.
thanks for the view of modesty that i had not really looked at in depth. i agree with many of the points made. my main objection is that fashion and modesty are often judged by the world’s standards, even when looked at as a Christian. when you go into the public and see ladies with only their private parts covered, or almost covered, then you can easily rationalize that the sleeveless tank top and shorts are modest in comparison. In Victorian times, a glimpse of the ankle was considered racy. we cannot use the standards of the world to judge our own modesty. Some of the battle we are in today is the self-centeredness of “me” “I don’t want anyone telling me what to wear or not wear” Modesty is truly a heart issue for both men and women and there is scriptural basis for not beling dressed in a provocative way for men or women.
as for the argument about dress only being for our human companions and that if no one around we could worship naked, i would remind the reader about His laws for the priests that were to have undergarments on under their robes so that nothing was exosed as they served in the temple…and there was not always someone around during those times of service. If God didn’t want us to be covered, why did he make garments of skins for Adam & Eve…and note, not just for Eve.
In summary, I totally agree that the burden of preventing lust for a man should be on the man, but we should purpose in our hearts, both men and women, to live and dress modestly, not bringing attention to ourselves by the way we dress, but sharing His love to all we meet.
Hi Jeff! God Bless You
Loved the post and I definitely got your point about we ladies dressing modestly in order to please God rather than men, but I also think that in some how men’s opinion matters as well. Like, earlier I was reading some of the posts Alyssa has written about “Dating” & “The Greatest Thing a Woman can do for a Man”, and according to that I’ve understand that a truly man of God would certainly pray for a girl with at least a minimum sense of Modesty which dressing will honor God rather than herself (satisfying the flesh). I mean, correct me if I’m wrong, its just my opinion! (:
Idk if this might help to understand my point de una forma mas clara.
http://youtu.be/2n-NWbd3pis
One thing that consistently gets left out in clothing discussion is what the term dressing modesty actually means. It is any clothes that draw attention to the person. The clothes can be covering head to toe, or a bikini. We all (men and women) should endeavor to glorify God with our dress. This includes dressing in a way that does not help our brother (or sister) sin. Yes, if they do lust, that sin is theirs. But if our dress encouraged that idea, that sin is ours.
Thank you so much for this, Jeff. I have been waiting for someone to say this! You have expressed it so well. There has been something about the attitudes I’ve heard expressed about modesty that has always bothered me. You hit the nail on the head. By the way, I just saw you at our church’s youth retreat this weekend and was very moved by your messages and your attitude.
“Every lady should ask herself when getting dressed, “am I getting dressed thinking about God’s gaze upon me or someone else’s?””
I’m confused. Considering the fact that God created us with no intention to be clothed, shouldn’t the way someone dresses be independent of “God’s gaze”? Cloths in God’s eyes should be simply our feeble mortal attempt to circumvent the embarrassment of nakedness… the nakedness that God initially created us to embrace. From this you could deduce that wearing cloths at all is a sin. I’m sure you can find your way around that riddle though seeing that you redefined the word ‘idolatry’ so effortlessly.
I guess technically anything can become an idol. I’d never heard of the “skirt test”..that’s horrible! How embarrassing that must be
This article was pretty convicting, even though I came to this agreeing with all of Jeff’s points. I’m a volunteer leader in a youth group and sometimes I get so caught up in making sure the girls dress appropriately and be careful with guys that I forget two things. It’s a two way street; the boys are flirting too, though the flirting is not safe at their age or healthy, the girls are not the only ones falling into sin. Also, I teach a girl’s purity Bible study and this couldn’t have come at a better time. I was this close to talking to them about modest dress as a “don’t cause your brothers to stumble” argument. But if our ultimate goal and love is Jesus, then we should be seeking to please Him by dressing modestly. Not simply trying to be a “good Christian.” Christianity isn’t about behavior modification. It’s about living as you are before God and avoiding sin, not because it’s bad, but because you really don’t want to, God’s bigger and you know it, and, well, you just love that about Him
Many good points here. Yes, it is true that rules can often lead to legalistic behavior. But at the same time let us be clear that rules do not always = legalism. In the case of this issue including rules at some christian colleges about women’s clothing, how the rule is brought up and enforced is a big issue. I think this is a crux of the issue. I’ve been at a Christian organization that made a clear effort at how it presented it’s organizational/operational rules. It would say abiding by those rules didn’t make you a better Christian, but it had to do with the well functioning of the organization. I’ve been at place where you wonder what they are doing.
Also, there is something to be said about submitting to authority, especially when you yourself signed on the dotted line that you would attend that institution and would abide by their rules. I think there is also something to be said about learning situational appropriate dress – something with which many young people today need assistance. If there is an organization that has dress rules and tries to teach some good decorum, but you don’t like it. don’t go there. Simple as that.
I think this hot issue these days about legalism is tricky. Too often I see people getting worked up in effect saying that rules = legalism. We must be very, very careful about when and how we throw out this term. Not everything labeled “Legalism” is in fact legalism. Also, just as improper as legalism is the attitude that because I love Jesus and say His name then anything goes.
I am amazed at how poorly many Christians these days dress when they go to church. NOT saying that wearing a 3-piece suit or a Victorian gown makes us more saved. BUT we ARE going to worship our Lord, right? Shouldn’t we dress up a bit to show some respect to the One we are worshipping and the occasion we do it at?
Bottom line, how we dress matters! How women dress does in fact matter. Same goes for men. Non-religous organizations seem to get this better than many Christians which is why they have dress codes and sometimes very strict dress codes. How we dress on the outside can be a very honest and truthful reflection of us on the inside. We are commanded to be different, right? Not weird, but intentially different than the world. From my point of view I see the pendulum swinging too far away from legalism and towards a kind of “anything goes” mentality.
Isn’t that just as wrong?